Need to be the 'best'

[sunnyday]

I'm just musing really.........however if anyone has any words of wisdom to share that would helpful :1b

I thought that I had experienced it all really - but this is new to me.......

I have a four year old boy (an old 4 year - Sept. birthday) he is very bright and capable and an all round super little boy.......until now that is.......

He seems to have some sort of deep rooted 'need' to be the 'best' - all the time and at everything!

This has only started very recently and it's quite difficult to know how to help him. Can I give you a couple of examples.......

He has decided that he likes to sit in a certain position when we have our group time at end of session - it is 'prime' position actually - I think that he chooses it because when the door is opened he can see out into the hallway area and so doesn't miss anything - I don't have any problem with this at all - and have even supported this by moving or adding a chair so that he has his special place......

Last week we were learning a new song - he had got it by Friday and he sang it so well that I gave him a 'wow'! However, yesterday he sang it sooooo fast - in a group situation - that other children couldn't keep up (earlier in the session another child - lets call him Ben sang the same song all the way through solo and I gave him a wow) - sorry sort of back tracked there - so he sang it so fast other children couldn't keep up - all I said (quietly) was "could you slow down a bit please" - he gave me a look to kill shook his head and refused to sing at all..........I decided to ignore this - when he left a few minutes later it was still wearing a face like thunder - mum said "oh what's happened" so I gave her a brief outline.........I could see she wasn't impressed and sure enough she wanted to speak to me about this morning - she said he felt that he had been 'told off' (he hadn't) and that he wasn't the best singer because Ben is and that the whole 'episode' had affected him so much he hadn't wanted to come today.......So mum is a lovely, sensible lady and we had an adult conversation - all good.......but I do find it bizarre that she hasn't told him that other children can do well and he won't always be 'the best'......

Conversation with him this morning - we were climbing trees yesterday - I said "oh that was fun" - him "I climbed the highest didn't I" - he did and I was able to tell him "yes, you did very high"......

So he had a very good session today, but I felt that I was walking on eggshells.........when mum arrived to collect he said "where's my prize".......that is obviously how she got him to come today by offering a prize.......

Anyway if you've read this far thanks! :1b

[narnia]

god help and save us from pushy parents..........................or whoever it is that is damaging this child with such an attitude. No, he can't always be best/first/thewinner............and, dare i suggest, he can't always have the 'best' seat, why should the other children not have a chance to sit there?Rotate the space, maybe have a 'special person of the day'??. Maybe a nice idea would be to have an 'I think ben is great because he can'......................whatever the child chooses to say.and then ALL children have a nice comment, it can be as simple as I like Susie because she has curly hair. The what doesn't matter, just the fact that we ALL have good points. I would worry that the other children will see this boy getting prime treatment..............and that will eventually pass to other parents. I think you have to suck it up basically. You can tell him he has done well, but not overdo it. Maybe ask him how he could have done something difeerently, or how does he think Ben, susie or Jack could do it. I think it's perfectly healthy for a child to be told 'no' sometimes and to learn that they aren't ( because truly, they AREN'T) always the best

[sunnyday]

Many thanks narnia - yes, I know that I should never have 'pandered' to him with the chair business - to be honest no other child would have 'cottoned on' to that!

Have been thinking about other recent 'happenings' that I now view quite differently......for example.....

A couple of weeks ago he was telling me about dinosaurs fighting "they do it to find out who is the boss".......I said "that's interesting, what does being the boss mean"? he replied "it means being the leader".....I said "oh well done, and who is the boss here at pre-school" - he said (with great authority) "I am".........I laughed and said "hmmm I don't think so young man, I think you'll find that I am the boss here"!

I know that he cares desperately what I think - the only real 'telling off' I have ever given him was one day when he stamped on and killed a spider (with much venom too)........I told him that he should have just told me and I would have moved the spider safely outside......I did lay it all on a bit thick "that could have been a mummy spider with babies" all that old guff - there is not a day that he doesn't say to me at some point "I don't kill spiders anymore"........

[Cait]

We have a similar little boy and I must admit that when we are playing something like dotty dinosaurs or shopping basket I do my level best to make sure he doesn't win!

[Rea]

We've got one similar, I don't know much about him, being there only 3 weeks, buy if he isn't chosen, doesn't come first, can't sit next to who he wants he holds his head, growls, screams, cries and grabs childrens faces. He calms down well, talks sensibly afterwards at what caused him to be so angry and then we can talk about what he should have done.

This isn't helping you at all is it?!!

Depending on the level of anger I do still make him go with whatever it is that's upsetting him purely because giving in to him prevents everyone else having their way.

I know the staff have been talking to his mum and I think she is part of the problem.

I'd talk to mum and tell her there are 20 odd other children who need to win, climb highest ECT and talk to your little chap about winning as a team, coming second ECT.

[finleysmaid]

you could be describing my nephew at 3! i remember having a go on some go carts when he was about 4 and his grandmother making sure he did not win...he howled for about 2 hours! :angry:i agree doing games is a great way of introducing those ideas of winning and not winning (avoid the loosing word!) we also talk about first second and third winners until they get the concept that it's fun to play! (perhaps a sticker for playing well!!) speak to Mum too ...competition is great but they have to know they will not be the top of the pack in everything!

[sunnyday]

We have a similar little boy and I must admit that when we are playing something like dotty dinosaurs or shopping basket I do my level best to make sure he doesn't win!

Thanks Cait - actually I must check with my deputy how he is in that sort of situation - she tends to do the 'games'.......

[sunnyday]

We've got one similar, I don't know much about him, being there only 3 weeks, buy if he isn't chosen, doesn't come first, can't sit next to who he wants he holds his head, growls, screams, cries and grabs childrens faces. He calms down well, talks sensibly afterwards at what caused him to be so angry and then we can talk about what he should have done.

This isn't helping you at all is it?!!

Depending on the level of anger I do still make him go with whatever it is that's upsetting him purely because giving in to him prevents everyone else having their way.

I know the staff have been talking to his mum and I think she is part of the problem.

I'd talk to mum and tell her there are 20 odd other children who need to win, climb highest ECT and talk to your little chap about winning as a team, coming second ECT.

Thanks Rea - I do need to talk to mum again - not sure she has really taken on board that it's the 'need to be the best' that is the problem........I think she feels it's because he thinks he has been 'told off'.......

[sunnyday]

you could be describing my nephew at 3! i remember having a go on some go carts when he was about 4 and his grandmother making sure he did not win...he howled for about 2 hours! :angry:i agree doing games is a great way of introducing those ideas of winning and not winning (avoid the loosing word!) we also talk about first second and third winners until they get the concept that it's fun to play! (perhaps a sticker for playing well!!) speak to Mum too ...competition is great but they have to know they will not be the top of the pack in everything!

Thanks fm........I really appreciate your help.......

I have been pondering - have I let some of this go because I recognise some of my own very 'worst qualities' in him no that's probably far too deep

[finleysmaid]

my nephews issues come from his Mother who is incredibly intelligent! She once told me she had got 98% in an exam at work and was furious that she had not got 100%! i laughed and said i have never in the whole of my life got 98% for anything!!!!

[sunnyday]

Would this be a good time to mention that I got 98% in a RE exam at school ah no.....probably not!

As ever, you lot have made me feel so much better - many, many thanks

[Rea]

my nephews issues come from his Mother who is incredibly intelligent! She once told me she had got 98% in an exam at work and was furious that she had not got 100%! i laughed and said i have never in the whole of my life got 98% for anything!!!!

I was at school with Amanda ? She cried because she got 1 B on her report that was otherwise full of A and A+. I believe that year I had 1 D amongst my A B and Cs

[finleysmaid]

Would this be a good time to mention that I got 98% in a RE exam at school ah no.....probably not!

As ever, you lot have made me feel so much better - many, many thanks

cor you know it all! and i went to a catholic school! at one point i could quote the whole of mathew mark luke and john!

Rea ...there's always one (and we know who it is on this thread don't we!

[sunnyday]

I was at school with Amanda ? She cried because she got 1 B on her report that was otherwise full of A and A+. I believe that year I had 1 D amongst my A B and Cs

See now I'm seriously worried - I wrote my own report when I was seven because I didn't like the one my teachers had written I have the offending document and my own one as my dear old mum passed them on to me :1b My own version just said against each subject 'Xxxxxxxx is very good at it'!!!

[thumperrabbit]

Our setting is in an affluent area with extremely pushy parents - a good 2/3rds of our children and parents act like this and its extremely wearing.

At Christmas and Easter when we do our little shows for the parents they start about a month before hinting about how their little darling should be the 'main part' and the looks could kill that we get again off both child and mum.

Even when we ask a question at circle time and a child answers, you can guarantee that I get another 4 or 5 children saying "I said it first" :angry:

[sunnyday]

Our setting is in an affluent area with extremely pushy parents - a good 2/3rds of our children and parents act like this and its extremely wearing.

At Christmas and Easter when we do our little shows for the parents they start about a month before hinting about how their little darling should be the 'main part' and the looks could kill that we get again off both child and mum.

Even when we ask a question at circle time and a child answers, you can guarantee that I get another 4 or 5 children saying "I said it first" :angry:

Oh dear me.......could be why I don't do any 'shows'

Thanks thumper always good to know we're not alone! :1b

[Panders]

I have a very similar key child Sunnyday, and on occasions in the last year it has been very very exhausting putting up with the tantrums, he has got so much better in the last few months, as soon as he begins to rant on, I just tell him I'm not going to talk to him while he is making such a racket because I can't understand him, I speak very calmly and quietly to him, etc. as we all do in these situations and eventually he is able to tell me where the problem lies, and truly it is generally a mixture of "I wasn't chosen first, or last to do something, I didn't get a turn when I wanted it, the list is endless. I have a friend who is well known to the family and they tell me that when the families get together for evenings and start to play board games and whatnot the dad is "very similar" in his own way - he has to point out that people are not playing fairly and gets very upset about it! he cannot put up with any kind of gamesmanship - .so inevitably other people now do it to wind him up!

 

I do feel sorry for my little chap because his tantrums win him no favours, and few friends, but we know that no child is born this way, that they are simply made this way by their experiences, all I feel I can really do is support him when his world falls apart, pick up the pieces, tell him like it is, explain that life isn't always how we want it to be and offer him praise when he does "get it right".

 

His parents are under no illusions as to what he is like - both highly intelligent people who have just got the nuturing wrong in my opinion and are now reaping the benefits!

 

Just a quick edit to say that this little boy always wanted to sit in the middle at storytime which led on to going home - he now wears glasses after developing a squint, he is long sighted, my belief now is that he needed to see the book - I have worn his glasses, I too am long sighted - without them everything is so blurry, when I put his glasses on I could see perfectly well, so his vision must have been quite blurry too. Perhaps if mum hasn't, you could suggest he has an eye test. (He does still like to sit in the middle though - that hasn't changed).

Edited March 18, 2014 by Panders

[sunnyday]

Thanks my lovely little black and white furry friend :1b

My little chap was once very, very popular with all the other boys 'falling over themselves' to play with him.......sadly, but quite understandably, most have now picked up on his "I won't be your best friend" type lines (oooh I really don't like that) and are no longer particularly interested in him - there are two boys who still look to him all the time.......

It's all a bit sad really - I'm not painting a very nice picture of him......and actually, I'm incredibly fond of him.......

I do know that I have to tackle this - just need to do so fairly 'gently' I think - I have absolutely no wish to 'hurt' him or 'crush' him in any way at all.........

Wish me luck! :1b

[Guest]

We had a child in nursery who was an only one and had no other children in the family that he mixed with. Parents were older and when at work, the child was looked after by two sets of grandparents.

 

He had a total and utter huge enormous meltdown the first time he didn't win a game we were playing.......

Turns out no one had ever let him lose as part of his development.

Ever!

It was really really hard to get him to accept that some times you don't win!

 

I worry sometimes I really do about the way some children are brought up!!

[Rea]

We had a child in nursery who was an only one and had no other children in the family that he mixed with. Parents were older and when at work, the child was looked after by two sets of grandparents.

 

He had a total and utter huge enormous meltdown the first time he didn't win a game we were playing.......

Turns out no one had ever let him lose as part of his development.

Ever!

It was really really hard to get him to accept that some times you don't win!

 

I worry sometimes I really do about the way some children are brought up!!

That's my husband, we call him 'Own wayer'

[sunnyday]

Thanks scarlettangel - my little chap is one of four children - mum did say to me this morning "please don't think he doesn't get told off at home, he's always being told off"!

Think she is missing the point somewhat - it's his need to be the best - blimey I'm repeating myself now :blink: not as she seems to think that he thinks he has been 'told off'

[sunnyday]

That's my husband, we call him 'Own wayer'

Get outta here - your husband was in Scarlettangel's nursery :blink: :rolleyes:

[Rea]

Maybe you need to be very positive about him to her so she doesn't read 'telling off' into everything, 'he played really well today even when he wasn't first/didnt win...' maybe leave out how he reacted completely?

[sunnyday]

Maybe you need to be very positive about him to her so she doesn't read 'telling off' into everything, 'he played really well today even when he wasn't first/didnt win...' maybe leave out how he reacted completely?

Yes I will....actually I already do that :1b

[Rea]

Thought you would, teaching granny to suck eggs here

[Inge]

its probably the way the child is retelling things to mum that makes her think it is telling off.... as that is the way he thinks or sees it... we all want to listen and believe our childs view... maybe a bit more explanation and chat with mum may help...

 

as to the storytime/ group time sitting in same place.. I used to have several like that over the years... so my solution was to get them all sat down then go to the back or side and ask them to all turn to see me but not move and I would read from the new position... so the child was still in same seat but postion to me was different... worked wonders...

[sunnyday]

Thought you would, teaching granny to suck eggs here

Oh no not at all - all help very much appreciated :1b

[sunnyday]

its probably the way the child is retelling things to mum that makes her think it is telling off.... as that is the way he thinks or sees it... we all want to listen and believe our childs view... maybe a bit more explanation and chat with mum may help...

 

Thanks Inge - yes I think so too

[SueJ]

I have been reading this one with interest - I have a G&T young man in my setting at the moment (reading, doing double digit addition, recognising 4 digit numbers etc.) Mum v. anxious about him doing well at everything - have already had a chat to her about not keeping on about school - as she is not concerned about his cognitive development (he could pretty much go straight into year 1) she has decided to focus on something else to fret about and is already worried he won't be dressing himself/changing himself and presenting an immaculate front in September (I think she has Patrick from Sewing Bee in mind for male presentation - swoon :wub: ).

A couple of weeks ago he was quite desperate to let me see his gift with numbers and two other young men (not quite at the same level) wanted to do the same - I try to make sure that he doesn't monopolise what is happening and keep reminding him that others "need to practice" their numbers too and perhaps he might like to support them in doing this. He then tends to be a bit more amenable about letting others get a word in edgewise.

It is a case of continually going into psychological battle - I'm battle scarred from dealing with my husband and son - both of whom feel the need to be best at everything and just can't lose anything. My husband "accidentally" wanders past my crossword puzzles to see if I have finished - if I haven't he must "finish" it for me (I'm sure it's so that he can demonstrate his mental acuity) and I have a nephew who at one birthday party wouldn't play pass the parcel in case he lost!!

As for losing at games - this is a brilliant way of making sure that some of our young charges learn the gentle art of losing gracefully - of course we must sell the argument that we are not setting them up to fail - rather we are empowering them with the skills to be resilient!! Maybe this can be an opening for you in your "chats" with mum Sunnyday

[Beau]

I have read this all with interest and would like to offer up a different viewpoint. My daughter has recently been diagnosed with Aspergers. She is highly intelligent but 'driven' to perfection. She isn't so much bothered about being the best amongst her peers but it's more from a personal viewpoint. Everything she does always falls short of the high standards she sets herself because basically she always decides that what she has done could be better. This has led her to a lifetime blighted by anxiety and depression. There are other factors too but the drive for perfection is always there.

 

Trying to teach her to accept something less than perfect, or be happy to 'fail' has been an uphill struggle and one which is ongoing. She is currently undergoing cbt to try and help her. Blaming this sort of thing on the parents and suggesting that he may have been 'made this way'through poor parenting isn't particularly helpful. Telling my daughter not to be like this is like me asking her to stop her heart beating just by thinking it. It's part of who she is, it's part of the wiring in her brain, it's not something she had chosen or been molded into.

 

I see something similar in my husband who, like your little boy, is always out to be the best. I have spoken to him in the past about it and he actually doesn't like that side of his personality and gets very annoyed with himself. Does it help? No, he still feels compelled to be the best. The only way he had been able to describe it is that it's almost like a physical pain to not be the best.

 

Now, whatever is going on with your little boy may not be the same as this but please consider the possibility that it's not something he can easily control or change and that the distress is not necessarily the result of an indulged child.