How many obs per statement?

[klc106]

Hi

 

When observing children and linking to development matters statements do you often have more than one observation for a statement before you say a child is secure?

 

Our improvement advisor has told us not to observe the same things when we already have an observation for it.

 

However, for statements such as 'shows control in holding and using jugs to pour, books and mark-making tools' we have observations of the children using a few different types of equipment?

 

And also for 'explores colour and how colours can be changed' we have made a learning story for some of our children showing lots of activities they did over a few weeks to explore colour and changing colours. We noted that they were secure by the end of this.

 

Is this right?

[Stargrower]

Yes, we would do exactly what you've described. In my opinion you can't say a child is secure in an area/statement with only one piece of evidence. We look at different ways of finding that evidence. I suppose what we try to avoid is making the same observation just written in a different way which does happen sometimes.

[louby loo]

We don't mark off each statement ...... wouldn't that just make it a check/tick list ?

 

We look a the age-band as a whole.....

[sunnyday]

We don't mark off each statement ...... wouldn't that just make it a check/tick list ?

 

We look a the age-band as a whole.....

 

Ditto :1b so whole age band and then a 'best fit' + e d or s.........

 

klc - I would really try hard not to start the whole 'check-list' thing........

[klc106]

We don't don't marks off statement like a ticklist.

 

When we add the 'links to eyfs' bit on to obs we say which statement it links to and say whether they are entering, developing or secure for that particular statement.

 

We do a best fit for the age band when assessing what level they are working at for progress trackers etc.

[sunnyday]

We don't don't marks off statement like a ticklist.

 

When we add the 'links to eyfs' bit on to obs we say which statement it links to and say whether they are entering, developing or secure for that particular statement.

 

We do a best fit for the age band when assessing what level they are working at for progress trackers etc.

 

Sounds good to me! :1b

[green hippo]

Hi,

I would add that for some statements I don't have any evidence as you just know the children that are ok. e.g. things like using the toilet or coming in to Nursery by themselves. I don't need to keep an observation of every children who can separate from their main carer, I would only keep a note of those children who can't and then show the progress in that area.

I also don't go down the line of marking a child at emerging, developing, securing for each statement as I see these statements as referring to the whole age and stage. Some of the statements are either can or can't statements and if they can't do it then they are working within the age and stage above. E.g. 'Recites number in order to 10' - they either can or can't do this and this is just one of the things that I would be looking out for them to be emerging, developing or securing in the 30-50 age and stage. I understand that you might say that they are emerging if they can say the number names in order to 6, for example, but what I look for is them counting to 10 in different context. If they can't get to 10 then this is what they would be working towards but I would say they are secure at 22-36 months. Sorry if that's controversial but I like to look at each age and stage as a whole or best-fit.

Green Hippo x

[hali]

yes Ofsted do not expect to see a piece of written evidence for each statement especially as already said you watch children doing the same thing time and time again

[klc106]

We definitely don't have an observation for every statement!

 

Our lea information state that we should use entering, developing and secure on all observations. So for the statement about counting to 10- this would be secure if they could do it totally independently

[klc106]

Hi,

I would add that for some statements I don't have any evidence as you just know the children that are ok. e.g. things like using the toilet or coming in to Nursery by themselves. I don't need to keep an observation of every children who can separate from their main carer, I would only keep a note of those children who can't and then show the progress in that area.

 

How would people like ofsted know that those children can do those things though if you were not prersent?

I feel things like learning to use the toilet and separating from parents are big achievements in children's development and should be recognised for that reason, Especially for our 2 year olds who have never been left before.

[catma]

I agree with Green Hippo.

Maybe there is a muddling of observation with assessment. Observations inform your judgements, but judgements are a big picture thing against the ages/stages as a whole.

 

cx

[green hippo]

Yes these are big achievements for these children and I would definitely record them for 2 year olds. I wasn't trying to criticise what you do, it was just an example in my setting of 3-4 year olds, where the majority of children come in and separate from their carer and use the toilet etc, I would only record those children who can't and then other people would know where they came in at and the progress they have made. Sorry, I was just explaining what I do and how I use observations.

Sorry if I've caused any offence x

[klc106]

No offence taken at all. :-)

[Guest]

If in your heart of hearts know a child can do something, you don't need a a written ob for it

[finleysmaid]

Our lea information state that we should use entering, developing and secure on all observations. So for the statement about counting to 10- this would be secure if they could do it totally independently

 

 

I'm a bit confused by your lea! in one sentence they are saying you only need to observe once and in the next they are asking for E,D, and s on all obs.......these two statements contradict themselves. Children are in the learning process...they will be showing progress(hopefully!!) therefore you may well have more than one ob in these areas. We often find that children who are having difficulties in a particular area have lots of obs on that area...because the staff are all aware they are having issues and so record minor improvements. Even after 15 years i still have not managed to come up with a system that requires only one observation to show progress.....i think it's impossible!

 

Why are they TELLING you to only do one...is there a time issue?

[klc106]

I know why you mean finleysmaid. The documents we are given from lea state we should use entering, developing, secure but then our improvement advisor has said to only have one observation per statement! Talk about confusing us!

 

We have most of our children for 2 years and they are all making progress in all areas. I just think sometimes you need more than one good observation before you can say a child is secure in something.

 

I could be totally wrong and maybe confusing everyone!

[sunnyday]

I just think sometimes you need more than one good observation before you can say a child is secure in something.

 

 

Me too klc........for secure - I (rightly or wrongly) read - needs no further opportunities - so I certainly don't use 'secure' very often! :1b

[catma]

The judgement is made over time...you may have some observations, some parental input some knowledge; all this will add up to the judgement. One observation doesn't amount to a judgement, as a judgement looks across the age/stage descriptors as one whole thing not separate statements.

In my book anyway!

Cx

[Guest]

Interesting thread - I'm desperately trying to persuade the powers that be in my school to move away from highlighting statements and instead to simply gather evidence (not necessarily written) and instead just make a judgement against age band each half term. Think I'm losing so far....