littleantics Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 With the expansion of funding for 2 year olds I was wondering how settings are preparing for this? How will this expansion affect your provision? Or are the Government making much ado about nothing when their is also a huge part of Childcare providers already looking after two year olds? A big part of this provision are exsisting Childminders, therefore why the panic? Childminders have always had two years as part of their core business. Are Childminders therefore being overlooked as rarely are they mentioned in this new scheme? What are settings going to provide for 2 year olds that they already do not? I have all these questions going through my mind! What do you all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 It won't affect us at all, as we already take 2 year olds. Will the funding amount be the same as for 3 year olds? It shouldn't be, as the ratio with staff is more expensive. Do we know when it's being rolled out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundia Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Hi little antics. I know in my LA, we have to 'grow' around 500 places for 2 year olds in order to meet the requirement to provide for the 20% of 2 years eligible for free entitlement. (by 2013, then 40% by 2014). But it isnt just about making the places, its also about ensuring that those places are of the highest quality. Childminders will provide quite a lot of those places, (here anyway), but they will have to be accredited childminders. So its not panic as such, but it is encouraging childminders who are not accredited but who are doing a great job, to perhaps consider the accreditation route. Obviously, some don't want to do that. We anticipate that about a third of our 2 year old funded places will be provided by childminders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Maybe I'm alone on this one - but i think it could be a big mistake I feel these places should be taken up at children's centres - possibly along with parenting classes. Childminders might even offer a better environment for them. We've always taken 2 years olds and never really had any issues, and we are now being asked to take funded. We have done so but have already noticed that this is to the detriment of our 'older children'. I fully appreciate that each case is different, and yes maybe the parents do need a break. We are a 'one-room' set up with a mixed age range, and having 2 yr olds with varying needs (usually S+E ) is not really a good mix - yes the ratio's are higher but often it takes 2 staff to deal with 1 child + incident and on some days this can be a constant. I therefore feel the funding rate should reflect this extra need and be much higher level, and if you take funded 2 olds the ratio could/should be higher. x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 As a setting we already take 2yr olds, but hopefully they will be funded from next year. our settings can only take 2yr olds if they have a good from Ofsted or our LA quality assurance scheme. If you have funded 2yr olds at the moment they get 10 hours but from next April they will get 15 hours. They are children that would be getting Free School Meals is roughly the criteria for accessing the funded hours. 2yr olds definetly take up more time and energy thats with out putting the parents in the equation. alot have behavioural problems and speech and language problems, but maybe thats just our lot :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 we take funded 2 year olds and have done now for the last couple of years . we are one of the few settings in our area to do so. We take children up to 5 in a family grouping. The 2 year olds are definitely different to the 3 year olds!! it was a real shock when a group of them started. In terms of practicality we were getting funding at the same rate as the 3's for 10 hours but couldn't sell the other hours easily and so we were making a loss on them. We are now getting paid at a higher rate and for up to 15 hours...so financially much better. We have had to become much more relaxed about children not wanting to join in and we have had to set up a sleep area too (because one of them still sleeps....not due to any requirement) we have also accessed some additional funding for some push/pull toys and more cause and effect toys for this age group. We try to stick to a system that allows items to be left out for several days as they need more time to consolidate their experiences. It has not been easy taking these children...in our area they are coming to us for a reason and so have a lot of baggage, as do their parents! we have however taken more for full days and this makes it easier. It is a huge undertaking in my opinion to take these little ones on. They are egocentric and need lots of support with turn taking and being part of a group but they have started to shape our practise in their own way and like when we first took children with sen needs they have found a place in our hearts!!! Our children centres do not run pre-school groups so it would not be possible to support them through that avenue and we have a huge lack of childminders so that route will not be possible either. I do agree however that parenting courses are going to be needed to support these fragile families, and their also needs to be training for practitioners in how to deal with benefits/housing/ etc and better links with health visitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devondaisy Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 We have always taken 2 year olds and this has never been a problem. However we are now taking funded 2 year olds, and this is a whole different ball game! I really do not think this has been thought through properly! We have 2 at the moment and their needs are so extensive, one due to learning and development delay, the other due to family background, that they both need 1:1 care throughout their time with us. We receive approximately £1 more per hour for them than for our 3/4 year olds. As a small setting I really feel this is impacting on our care of the other children, and staff morale is falling fast! We are able to apply for additional funding for them, but this won't come into effect until January, and will certainly not apply to all their sessions with us. I know that what we are doing to support these children and their families is of huge benefit to them, but we simply can't maintain this and still remain a viable business/charity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 It won't affect us at all, as we already take 2 year olds. Will the funding amount be the same as for 3 year olds? It shouldn't be, as the ratio with staff is more expensive. Do we know when it's being rolled out? We get 60p more per hour for funded 2 year olds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 oh well that helps ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sn0wdr0p Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 We took children for care under the two year old pilot scheme and got about £1 more per hour. I'm not at work at the moment but I think it was around £4.60. This is meant to reflect the extra work that is needed for these children who come from disadvanted backgrounds etc. However, it went nowhere near to covering the extra work required e.g. attending core group meetings, working with family support teams, speech therapy, parenting support.......... We used to mix our two and three year olds but have now created a separate smaller room for our two year olds in preparation for the (hopefully) increased numbers who will attend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargrower Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 We just get the hourly rate for our funded 2 year olds. However, it has created a lot of extra work as they need so much support because of the reasons for their funding (delayed development, communication difficulties, families in need, bereavement, disability etc.) We are constantly getting requests from Children's Centres to take funded 2 year olds but we don't have any space for them. Sometimes I feel that we are like a Children's Centre but without the support... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I get all my children, funded 2 year olds, funded 3 year olds and full fee paying, and parents signed up to my local children centre as part of the registation process so that they can get all the support they need and I just signpost the after school activities//HV/ toddler groups/young parent groups/portage/ social groups/ SALT/housing/family support etc etc for them to access so not so much extra work for me really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleantics Posted September 30, 2012 Author Share Posted September 30, 2012 Wow thank you so much for the reply. It is certainly food for thought. I agree that who ever takes on a 2 year old ought to be linked to a Children's Centre to gain much needed/further support. From a childminders point of view I have found this:- Barriers to childminder participation in the offer Respondents identified a range of barriers to participation in the two year olds offer that were specific to childminders, including: • Quality in general: it was suggested that it was very difficult to find any good or outstanding childminders particularly in the most disadvantaged areas. • The requirement to belong to a childminding network and to be qualified to level three: one interviewee commented that childminders either had a qualification but were not in the network, or vice versa. In some areas, there was no childminding network, which automatically excluded childminders from the offer. Even in areas where a network existed, it could only support a limited number of childminders (usually 15-20). • The requirement, in some areas, that all providers can continue to provide early education when the child turned three 28 , as some childminders were not accredited to provide this. • To be accredited to provide the three and four year olds offer, childminders needed to be rated good or outstanding by Ofsted and have a level three qualification. Some childminders were not accredited to provide the free entitlement for three and four year olds. • Restricted places for children under five: childminders were much more restricted in the number of places they could offer to children under five at any one time, and may therefore only be able to offer one place at a time to the two year olds programme. • Competition from settings: it was suggested in one area that children’s centres were sometimes reluctant to allocate the childcare element of the offer to other providers, as they needed the funding themselves to ensure they were sustainable. i have mixed feelings about 2 year olds in larger settings. Research suggests that a child under 3 needs to make firm attachments in order to have good PSED, CL, and PD. A childminder has a home from home environment, the child also experiences days out, socialises on occasion with larger groups at Children's Centres or Toddler groups - but at the same time comes back to a home environment where it should resemble a home from home. Strong links are often built with the childminder and parents that go on years after the children have left. I have mixed emotions about very young children in daycare or pre-school settings. - what about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sn0wdr0p Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I run my own nursery now but originally was a childminder and I still try to keep that homely feel here. I take no more than 8 two year olds who are cared for in a lovely room equipped with lots of cosy spaces, sofas etc. with their own toilet and cloakroom and I have the same 3 staff in every day who work closely with their key children. I believe firmly though that different age groups should mix together though and we do have opportunities when we all gather together and take part in joint activities e.g. working on a large collage or having a sing song. We bring in children from our out of school club so we have children up to age 11 and they all love these sessions and every child gets so much from it. There is a nursery close by who take over 20 two year olds in a room and that horrifies me as does their massive staff turnover and large number of apprentices. Unfortunately it is a new build and yes it looks lovely which unfortunately is all that many parents look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 littleantics ....we are a very 'familyfied' pre-school with lots of sofas and soft furnishings and a large garden...we have also restricted our 2 year olds to only 8 or under. They have keyworkers who look after them/change them etc and build very close relationships with them and their families so we have tried hard to create a home from home too. As a pre-school we foster strong bonds between the professionals and ourselves too so we will know who to refer to and often support services pop in so that might be something that is easier to do in a setting like ours. As to the childrens centres i am rather jealous of the support you all get from yours ...i have to say we get very little and until half way through last year when i eventually turned up on their doorstep and introduced myself we have had no contact. None of my families access their services and they have very little to offer the community...i know i'm in the minority on here but in my area i'm not sure why we have them! (ducks for cover!!) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargrower Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I could have written that post myself Finleysmaid. The only time we have contact with the local Children's Centres is when they refer children to us. Maybe I need to try harder to make contact with them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 . None of my families access their services and they have very little to offer the community...i know i'm in the minority on here but in my area i'm not sure why we have them! (ducks for cover!!) Where are you hiding finleysmaid? I will have to join you as I completely agree with you re CC in my area - must be great when they do work as intended......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I could have written that post myself Finleysmaid. The only time we have contact with the local Children's Centres is when they refer children to us. Maybe I need to try harder to make contact with them... Ah - we will have to make room for Beehive in our hiding place........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I have never had any contact from our CC at all, in fact I had to really think hard then to work out where it is! No, they keep themselves to themselves I assume. I have no idea what services they offer or anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeany Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Part of the funding agreement in our area is that to receive the 2 year old funding parents have to sign up with the children's centre. However the support is for the families not us. We have had quite a few funded 2 year olds and the vast majority have no additional baggage. In fact we have found the opposite most of the funded 2 year olds we have have come to us because the parents have looked for info themselves. The cases that have proved the most complex( and there have been a few) have been children that are coming up to school age that have not had access to settings and for one reason or another find themselves with us. We get £3.50 per 2 year old but that is the minimum they will pay, if our fees were higher they would pay more not sure of the limit though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calicojo Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I agree with Jeany; the two year olds we have had with funding (only 2 so far!) have had no additional problems - presumably they have accessed funding because of the level of benefits their families are claiming - we are not in a disadvantaged area where children get funding automatically. We get £1.20 an hour above our usual funded rate for 10 hours a week, so that helps with extra staff. They have to be referred by the children's centre. I am now sending families to the CC to ask about funding if I know they are struggling to afford our fees and/or waiting until the 3 year old funding kicks in. We still only take children from 2 1/2 though, that 6 months makes all the difference..... Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjayne Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 As a setting that has been taking funded two year olds for about 5 years now ( we were a pilot setting) I find that generally although a little more challenging initially they soon settle and make good progress. I did initially have them in a separate area to the 3-5's but when we had a redevelopment I mixed the two threes and fours, and have never regretted it . A room full of two year olds can be very stressful, and they make much more effective progress when supported by older children IMO. As for support and funding - our local Childrens Centre and the other professionals like SALT and the health Visitors are always there when needed and we do get extra money - and occasionally resources too from our LA . So all in all can't complain and am looking forward to more twos in the very near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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