I'm Stunned

[sunnyday]

Hi all - not really sure why I'm posting this......I suppose, just because I know you will understand........

 

We have a lovely hometime routine........at 11:50 the children sit in a story circle listen to a story, sing songs, talk about the morning etc. - we have by this time unlocked our outside door for parents - but parents wait in corridor and then at 12 we open the door and the children are called one by one to meet their parents or whoever picks them up........this system works really well for us and most importantly it is a safe way for the children to leave........

 

Today at 11:55 the door to our pre-school room opened and there was a man who we had never seen before.......one of our girls got up and ran to him saying "grandad" - so that was a help - below is the conversation that ensued......

 

Me: Oh hello, have you come for xxxx, well it's nice to meet you. I wonder, just for future reference, would you mind waiting until we open the door? (All delivered with a smile and a very 'light' tone)

 

Him: That won't be happening.

 

Me: I'm sorry?

 

Him: That won't be happening, I've come to pick her up and I'm not waiting.

 

Me: Right I see, well please don't take offence.........(was about to explain 'nicely' about children's safety - but he cut me off)

 

Him: I'm not, you asked a question and I'm giving you an answer, I won't ever be waiting, I will pick my granddaughter up when it suits me and not when you tell me I can.

 

With that he took her and left.

 

Well I was completely stunned as were my staff..........his tone was just awful....very cross and confrontational.........and of course this was all played out in front of all the other children.........

 

I have no idea why he would speak to me like that, I know that my approach to him was very friendly and polite..........

 

I really don't know where to take this.......probably nowhere.........probably best to just forget it.........not sure........my deputy thinks that I should contact the child's mother and tell her what has happened and say that we do not want him to pick up again........I don't really think I can do that........

 

What a horrible end to what had been a lovely week.......

[Guest]

How unpleasant for all of you.

We have had grandparents wandering in because they don't know the routine but never with an attitude like that.

Is he likely to come often because if it is a one off it might be worth letting it drop?

Then are the parents approachable?

Sorry that he spoilt what was a lovely sunny friday.

xx

[Guest]

Poor you - how rude.

 

Hard as it is, I think that you really do need to deal with it, as you need to send the message to everyone that rude behaviour and disregarding the procedures is not on. Tackle it with the mum. Try and be lighthearted, but you have the right to bar him if this continues.

[Cait]

Goodness how incredibly RUDE!!! There was no need for him to speak to you like that at all - I'd definitely be tempted to have a word with Mum and say how upset you were by the incident.

 

I can understand why your staff would suggest that, and it's tempting to do it, but it wouldn't get you anywhere, neither would keeping the door locked until 'time' as he'd probably just bang on it.

 

Rest assured that you did everything properly, and remained pleasant and calm, if a little shaken (but not stirred) and try and chalk it down to experience.

 

Ask Mum to let you know if he's likely to be picking her up so that you can make sure she's ready - and if she asks why, tell her that he's told you he doesn't want to wait for her.

[HappyMaz]

Well firstly, a strange man shouldn't be picking up a child from your nursery without your being notified by the parent first - I'd definitnely make that point to mum when she drops off next.

 

People are funny aren't they? It may be that he was embarrassed because he so obviously didn't understand what he was supposed to do and didn't react very appropriately to what you said. Alternatively he could just be a very grumpy man who is just rude. Its hard to say.

 

I think this is one of those situations where you have to chalk it up to experience, and I'm not sure where you stand on asking mum not to send him to collect his granddaughter in future. If his behaviour was abusive and you were scared then I think you have a right to work in an environment where you feel safe and comfortable, so you might have grounds there. If however he was just downright rude then I'm not so sure. Only you and your staff can decide which category this incident falls into.

 

We don't open the door until the session has ended, and I can look through the glass and see who is out there. I'd be a bit concerned that anyone off the street could walk into your building and into your pre-school without being invited in. In my last setting we did as you do now - open the front door and parents could congregate inside whillst waiting for the session to finish. There was a big notice on the door to say when the inside door would be open, and we had a bolt on the inside door so that no-one could get in without our permission.

 

Sorry have gone off track - it was an awful way to end the week and I don't think I'd let it lie. I'd speak to mum about the child collection procedures, and maybe I'd also ask her if I'd offended granddad in any way because he seemed put out that I had suggested he wait with the other parents until the end of the session. Then I'd judge what to say next by her reaction - it may be that she'll say he's a miserable old so and so and to ignore him, or maybe she'll make sure he understands your procedures if he has to come and collect again.

 

Maybe she'll turn up full of apologies anyway once he tells her of your little exchange - who knows?

 

For now, I'd say settle yourself down in the sunshine with a long glass of something cool and forget all about him for now. Reflect on what went well this week and celebrate a successful week.

 

Put your feet up - you've earned it!

 

Maz

[Panders]

Oh Sunnyday - I feel you must talk to mum about this. Was he on your list as a nominated person to pick up? Perhaps you could start the conversation with that if he wasn't and get her to register him as someone allowed to pick up his granddaughter, then explain what went on today, and labour the point that actually you did not know him and had not been told previously that he was doing the pick up.

 

We have so many lovely grandparents that pick up at ours and they are never grumpy or rude. I think this grandparent needs to be told by his family that pick up time is ..........

and if he is picking up he sticks to it.

 

Maybe he felt it an inposition to have to come and get her for some reason - but rudeness is not acceptable.

[sunnyday]

Thank you all for your wonderful support - very kind words - very much appreciated.

 

Yes he is on list as authorised to collect.......

 

They are, I feel, a 'difficult' family all round, they all seem to be quite stroppy and unpleasant........I had a 'run in' with mum (his daughter) when the little girl started with us - she was being consistently late to pick up.......I was calm and polite but explained that she must be on time........she said nothing in reply....but the sent a really stroppy email telling me that if I mean 5 to 12 then I should say so........I replied that I was sorry she felt aggrieved by my comment but it is important for her to be on time etc.etc. - anyway this was six months ago and I have been nothing but friendly and polite to her - then and now.......

 

Dad also brings and collects - he just has an unpleasent 'air' about him - can't explain really......

 

This is the first time Grandad has ever collected........hope it's the last!

 

The little girl herself is actually very rude - absolutely no use of please and/or thank you without constant reminders.......she also says things like "I'm talking to you, answer me" - this is when she has butted in when I am talking to another child.......you know the old saying 'the fruit never falls far from the tree'

 

A staff member is stationed on the outer door door so that she can check who is coming in and then also checks that the children are not going out without an adult......

[mundia]

There isnt anything to excuse rudeness, but just a couple of things I would ask.

 

If this man who you didnt know could just walk in (after the door is open whilst you finish storytime?), could anyone else..this would be my biggest worry here. Coule you also bolt the inside door until the session finishes, yes it may result in a bang on the door, but hopefully these times would be rare.

 

Second, grumpy he may have been but he is quite correct that he can pick her up (if he is meant to) whenever he wants to and there may be reasons why he couldn't wait (still doesnt excuse the rudeness of course). Ive had numerous children collected over the years half way through a asession, or 10 minutes before the end.

 

Great advice form other members, take it up with mum, make the point that you didnt know who he was and you were quite within your rights to ring mum to double check which would have taken longer. Explain what happened and that in future you would like to know if he is collecting and if the child needs to leave any earlier than usual.

 

Have lovely weekend now, enjoy the sun and dont worry about it until Monday

[sunnyday]

There isnt anything to excuse rudeness, but just a couple of things I would ask.

 

If this man who you didnt know could just walk in (after the door is open whilst you finish storytime?), could anyone else..this would be my biggest worry here. Coule you also bolt the inside door until the session finishes, yes it may result in a bang on the door, but hopefully these times would be rare.

 

Second, grumpy he may have been but he is quite correct that he can pick her up (if he is meant to) whenever he wants to and there may be reasons why he couldn't wait (still doesnt excuse the rudeness of course). Ive had numerous children collected over the years half way through a asession, or 10 minutes before the end.

 

Great advice form other members, take it up with mum, make the point that you didnt know who he was and you were quite within your rights to ring mum to double check which would have taken longer. Explain what happened and that in future you would like to know if he is collecting and if the child needs to leave any earlier than usual.

 

Have lovely weekend now, enjoy the sun and dont worry about it until Monday

 

Thanks mundia - we crossed posts there - no it is not possible for people to just 'walk in' a staff memeber is stationed on the outer door as soon as it is unlocked - she knew who he was, I didn't........

 

Of course, I completely agree that he has right to pick her up when he wants to - we often have children collected early - but are always told first.........

 

I would never dream of saying that he couldn't take her, I was just trying to explain the routine to him........this is the routine that keeps all the children safe including his own granddaughter........

Edited May 21, 2010 by sunnyday

[Guest]

Just wondering.... as you had occasion to ask mum not to collect late I wonder if she had really impressed on her father that he had to be on time - hence the 'attitude'. Maybe your previous conversation with mum had hit home more than you realised.

[Guest]

Thanks mundia - we crossed posts there - no it is not possible for people to just 'walk in' a staff memeber is stationed on the outer door as soon as it is unlocked - she knew who he was, I didn't........

 

Of course, I completely agree that he has right to pick her up when he wants to - we often have children collected early - but are always told first.........

 

I would never dream of saying that he couldn't take her, I was just trying to explain the routine to him........this is the routine that keeps all the children safe including his own granddaughter........

 

 

I think you definitely need to mention it to mum. Maybe from the point of view of how you can't have him just wandering into the room so if he wants to collect her early he needs to either inform the staff member on the outer door so she can come in and get the child or that mum needs to tell you before the session so she can be ready. Perhaps you could also put up a notice to this effect or put it on the newletter if you have one.

 

Apart from that I'd do as others have suggested and buy a bolt for the door if possible! Also perhaps the staff member on the door could be alert so if he arrives again to pick up she could say that she will go and get the child for him if he doesn't want to wait.

[sunnyday]

Just wondering.... as you had occasion to ask mum not to collect late I wonder if she had really impressed on her father that he had to be on time - hence the 'attitude'. Maybe your previous conversation with mum had hit home more than you realised.

I think you are quite possibly right there........it's quite hard to explain.........you sort of needed to be there.........I know that I was not at all rude to the mum.........besides anything else our SIP was there and witnessed the conversation which was so fortunate as I was able to check with her - what I had said and how I said it and she was quick to confirm that there was nothing untoward about my behaviour..........but yes, I think that could be what's behind this.......unfortunately that doesn't make me feel any better......I was hurt by her strange reaction at the time and now I am hurt by his behaviour today........

 

We operate in a tiny rural village - we are so lucky - we have just lovely children with lovely parents and lovely grandparents - this sort of thing just does not happen in our setting...........I am obviously totally spoiled..........but I don't think I can accept being spoken to like that and especially not in front of the children - all most unpleasant.........

[louby loo]

Some good advice from others. There is no reason for rudness.

Strangely enough we had exactly the same senario this week with a grandad who'd come to pick up but was not on list - I could see by the 'eyes' he was really annoyed as I told him I'd need to phone and confirm this. However I'll give him his due - although I could see he was fuming he didn't say a word and we sorted pick-up and he collected child and went without saying anything at all, which is better than causing a scene.

 

Try and leave work issues at work and have a chilled week-end.. (well we can but dream about that one )

xxx

[sunnyday]

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to read and reply -your support is very much appreciated

 

I know that I need to put this behind me for the weekend..........unfortunately I am a 'born worrier' and I find any sort of confrontation/unpleasantness very hard to bear........

 

I will talk this over with staff on Monday (child is not in again until Tuesday) and then a letter I think - not making any mention of his rudeness but just explaining why we have this rule and that if the child needs to be collected early let us know and we will have her ready at the outer door........

 

I will think about a bolt for the inner door but would have to take advice from the Hall committee and the Fire Officer as our room needs to be crossed for fire escape (we are on the first floor of a community building)....so I think it's a bit of a non-starter.......in the 15 years that we have been in these premises this has never proved to a problem before.......

[Glen]

Hi

 

From one born worrier to another.

 

Your end of session routine sounds very similar to mine.

 

In 16 years of working I have not experienced anyone quite so rude as your grandparent today but I know it is very unsettling when something like this happens out of the blue.

 

I try to remember what someone once said to me.

 

However good a session was when you go home you only remember the unpleasant bits, which may of only lasted 5 minutes in total.

 

So sit back tonight and remember the nice bits of the week, have a glass of wine and enjoy the sun at the weekend.

 

Glen

[Gezabel]

but I don't think I can accept being spoken to like that and especially not in front of the children - all most unpleasant.........

 

I couldn't agree more and hard though it may be I think you need to make that clear. We had a similar situation a few years back, not about collecting children, but attitude and rudeness of a parent. A dad was unhappy with a minor issue and when he came to collect 'stormed in' and let out a tirade of verbal abuse to a member of staff. This was in front of children and other staff and was exceedingly unpleasant. (yelling, swearing etc you get the picture!) To cut a long story short he removed his child from the setting with various threats about informing OFSTED - he never did and we never heard any more from him.

 

Whatever reasoning anyone comes up with for the behaviour of this man it is not acceptable behaviour. He needs to understand that of course he can collect his child when he likes but for the safety of all children and successful running of your setting you need to know in advance when a child is being collected. Of course there will be times when things come up and a child needs to be collected unexpectedly but even then a phone call to say 'I'm on the way' is just a matter of courtesy (and to ensure the child is ready!)

 

I have had an occasionally knock on the door from a parent who needs to take her child there and then.I had one last week, a very apologetic mum knocked on the door and she had managed to get a doctors appointment for the baby but couldn't get there and back and be in time for normal preschool collection so her answer was to collect early and take the child with her - fine by me and she just waited a couple of minutes whilst we got shoes/coat etc together. SHe was apologetic that she couldn't afford to use her phone credit to ring and let us know!

[Guest]

Sometimes I think the job would be sooo much easier with out the parents. I have lost count of the times parents have had my staff in tears because of their abusive behaviour, funny how it always happens when I'm not in the building!! Parents in question have always had short shrift off me afterwards!!

 

Latest one was a parent who was 10 mins late collecting, staff member told her, parent said she'd never been late before, staff member said that actually she was the previous week, parent started shouting called staff member a liar etc. As a result of her lateness my member of staff was late leaving (end of day), missed her bus and had to wait an hour for the next one.

 

I spoke to mum the next day, told her she'd upset my member of staff, mum said she too was upset at being accused of being late. Mum demanded an apology off the staff member so I said if she apologised to the staff member I would wave the late collection fee, mum refused and so did I. We reached a stale mate and she demanded ops managers details, she was going to complain and withdraw her child; needless to say neither happened!!

 

Ironically a few weeks later mum had to ask for my help in gathering evidence in a research project she is conducting (mum is a scientist in research), I smiled very sweetly and said of course I would help, even though it stuck in my throat but I was gloating in the knowledge that she must have felt very uncomfortable asking me!!!! Love it!!!!!

[Guest]

Sunnyday,

 

Please please don't let this rude man upset you!!!!! You have the moral highground here and people who talk to others like that are not worth the time worrying about. I had a very similar situation once where a grandparent came to collect that I have never met before, I explained that if they just gave me 5 minutes I could call home and check that this was ok. They were very rude, and they shouted at you.

 

I acted in a completley different way to you and immediatley rang the parents and said I would not tolerate being spoken to like this, in the end I was nearly as bad as the parent so at least you handled the situation way better than me!!!!

 

Please don't worry too much, definatley have a word with mum (but not in the way I did) and open the wine

 

Rapunzel x x

[Guest]

poor you its awful when something like this happensyou cant get it out your head your feel upset cross all sorts of feelings, i like to have an imaginary conversation in the shower to get it out my syttem, maybe you should do that so u can enjoy a lovely summers weekend x

[sunnyday]

What a lovely lot you are - thank you all

[Deb]

Hi Sunnyday

 

Sorry you have such a rude unpleasant experience.

 

My first thought was that this is as a knock on effect from your conversation with Mum. It seems this grandparent was pretty fired up.

 

Personally I would not be too bothered about an early collection, though of course it is preferable to know in advance and essential for that person to be on the collection authority. We have parents collecting early at the end of the day because school finishes earlier than us.

 

I see the problem as the grandparent entering the room without being let in by a member of staff. If the hall door cannot be locked, and I can understand why not ie fire regulations, could the outer door remain locked until you are ready to let the parents in?

 

Could you put a little note to the parent to say that to avoid a repetition of the unpleasant conversation today, could the grandparent kindly knock and wait to be let in if he wants to collect his grandaughter early. That way you are not saying he cannot collect early, just asking that he shows common courtesy and helps you to protect all the children in your care.

 

Just a thought.

 

From another born worrier - think it goes with the territory!

[Guest jenpercy]

Hi all - not really sure why I'm posting this......I suppose, just because I know you will understand........

 

We have a lovely hometime routine........at 11:50 the children sit in a story circle listen to a story, sing songs, talk about the morning etc. - we have by this time unlocked our outside door for parents - but parents wait in corridor and then at 12 we open the door and the children are called one by one to meet their parents or whoever picks them up........this system works really well for us and most importantly it is a safe way for the children to leave........

 

Today at 11:55 the door to our pre-school room opened and there was a man who we had never seen before.......one of our girls got up and ran to him saying "grandad" - so that was a help - below is the conversation that ensued......

 

Me: Oh hello, have you come for xxxx, well it's nice to meet you. I wonder, just for future reference, would you mind waiting until we open the door? (All delivered with a smile and a very 'light' tone)

 

Him: That won't be happening.

 

 

Me: I'm sorry?

 

Him: That won't be happening, I've come to pick her up and I'm not waiting.

 

Me: Right I see, well please don't take offence.........(was about to explain 'nicely' about children's safety - but he cut me off)

 

Him: I'm not, you asked a question and I'm giving you an answer, I won't ever be waiting, I will pick my granddaughter up when it suits me and not when you tell me I can.

 

With that he took her and left.

 

Well I was completely stunned as were my staff..........his tone was just awful....very cross and confrontational.........and of course this was all played out in front of all the other children.........

 

I have no idea why he would speak to me like that, I know that my approach to him was very friendly and polite..........

 

I really don't know where to take this.......probably nowhere.........probably best to just forget it.........not sure........my deputy thinks that I should contact the child's mother and tell her what has happened and say that we do not want him to pick up again........I don't really think I can do that........

 

What a horrible end to what had been a lovely week.......

 

do your procedures allow you to hand over child to someone you've never seen before without checking identity. I would have made sure that I was very officious in checking with mum that he was authorised and then in future, I would make sure that the door isn't unlocked until you are ready

[sunnyday]

do your procedures allow you to hand over child to someone you've never seen before without checking identity. I would have made sure that I was very officious in checking with mum that he was authorised and then in future, I would make sure that the door isn't unlocked until you are ready

 

I did say earlier that my staff member who was stationed at the outer door knew who he was that was why she let him in........it was my deputy and I who were in our pre-school room who hadn't seen him before........

 

He is on the child's list of people authorised to collect.

 

I also said that the child ran over to him saying "granddad" - a liitle clue there

 

I also said that this has never ever been a problem in the 15 years that we have used these premises..........we let parents, grandparents, carers in for their comfort.........now today was a beautiful sunny day (my favourite obviously!), but there would be absolutely nowhere for them to shelter from rain, snow, the cold and to be honest it's not the way I want to operate.......

 

Lots to think about and to discuss with my staff team and possibly with Early Years advisers too......

Edited May 21, 2010 by sunnyday

[Cait]

Absolutely. Sometimes it's incidents like this that help us to review our policies and procedures, unpleasant though they are.

 

I hope you manage to put it behind you sufficiently over the weekend to relax. Grab a notebook and write down everything you wish you'd said - I find that helps! And just perhaps, a thought that he wasn't being intentionally rude - it's just the way he is when he's put 'on the back foot' when he reverts to 'caveman'. (Plus of course the obvious thought that he's always been so rude to everyone he meets that he doesn't realise he's even doing it any more!)

[HappyMaz]

I also said that the child ran over to him saying "granddad" - a liitle clue there

This does remind me of a time when a grandma came to pick up her grand-daughter. We have a child collection book which has to be signed whenever anyone else comes to pick up a child and the details were in the book but none of the staff on duty that day had seen this lady before. Smiling grandma comes to the door, signs the book and then comes into the main hall where said child is enjoying a story with a practitioner.

 

Child looks up and says she doesn't know who this person is! Much scratching of heads and cajoling but child insists (loudly by this point) that she is not her grandma and she doesn't know who she is. Fortunately grandma is on the approved list, and we asked her to confirm all the salient details to prove she was who she said she was. Once we told the child we knew that this was her grandma, she agreed and happily went home for lunch at grandma's house.

 

Grandma was not best pleased with her granddaughter's behaviour, but was happy to wait whilst we carried out all the necessary checks.

 

Still makes my blood run cold when I think of it - but mum thought it was highly amusing!

 

Maz

[lynned55]

I wonder if he was cross with his daughter/in law about having to collect her and took it out on you?

Not that it makes his rudeness acceptable, I hasten to add. I think you would find that someone like him would be given very short shrift (sp!) at a school if he tried to collect from a classroom with that attitude.

[sunnyday]

I wonder if he was cross with his daughter/in law about having to collect her and took it out on you?

Not that it makes his rudeness acceptable, I hasten to add. I think you would find that someone like him would be given very short shrift (sp!) at a school if he tried to collect from a classroom with that attitude.

Who knows! Thank you for your response.........funny you should mention school........I will 'mark his card' with the Primary School without a doubt.........what is that they say 'revenge is a dish best served cold'..........

 

Horrible man - gave me a restless night last night - I drove past his house this morning and called him something unrepeatable as I passed - funny how much better I felt for that

 

Crikey had to come back to edit - to explain that I had to drive past his house - it was en route - I didn't do it just so that I could hurl abuse at him!!! Goodness perhaps I also need to explain he couldn't hear me either!

Edited May 22, 2010 by sunnyday

[Beau]

Well, I don't know about it making you feel better but you have just given me a good laugh!

[Panders]

Hi Sunnyday - good to read you are bouncing back !

[Cait]

Crikey had to come back to edit - to explain that I had to drive past his house - it was en route - I didn't do it just so that I could hurl abuse at him!!! Goodness perhaps I also need to explain he couldn't hear me either!

 

 

so you say.......... haha