Changing headcount dates

[Rafa]

Our county are changing the headcount dates from next term.

Previously we did a headcount maybe 2 weeks in and a mid term adjustment 2 weeks from eot.

We had two payments a term, one the first week, then final payment after half term

 

Now they are taking the headcount at the END of the term!

We get an initial payment judged I guess on Spring term - not sure what percentage.

 

Summer term will now apparently run from 11th April - 26th August - when we will receive our final payment! Well it doesnt run to 26/8 in my book!! We are term time only - whats happening? Looks like this is yet another move to sideline term time only settings to me!!

 

And its very rude to withhold money that is owed for services given! my term finishes this year on the 8th July -,so basically will have to wait 7 WEEKS for final payment!! What other business would put up with this?

 

Do other countys work this way? I never have any extra in the pot....how do you pay holiday pay if you dont get funding until 26/8?

 

Fed up!

[Panders]

That is outrageous! I suppose their argument (although doesn't hold up) would be why should they pay for services they have not yet received!

 

The whole premise of this business is you pay for a place, you cannot sell that place to any other child on any given day, you are not a drop in centre. I assume there is nothing to be done?? Too late - somewhere along the line you consented to this change even though you probably are not aware that you did because it was hidden in small print or gobbledygook somewhere.

 

If my county adopts the same thing, and I am sure they will all be looking to see how it goes with yours, that will be it for me I think, I will not ask staff to work and not be paid until 5/6 weeks down the line.

[finleysmaid]

HUmm free at the point of delivery does not mean to us though does it....how can we pay for utilities/rent/staff etc when we haven't been paid!

[Rafa]

Well Panders they did that 'add your view' thing earlier this year about the forthcoming headcount change (they didnt say snything about being paid 7 weeks after the END OF Term!!! Apparently the response was 'limited' but they 'heeded comments' - then it said....'Moving Forward........in other words stuff what you said, this is what we're doing!!

 

I feel they are actually breaking contract with term time settings - they talk about 'spreading the funding over the holiday period' - well the we dont do holiday cover - they know that!

 

Like I've ranted before...think this another ploy to close us all down! The awful thing is like you said....theres nothing we can do - if I thought it would matter to them I'd close but I know they would'nt care less!

 

Further in their email they talk about the Government wanting Early Years settings to be 'sustainable' ...yeah right!

[Guest]

Disgusting - how are you supposed to pay your staff and additional costs? Is everyone willing to wait until the end? We are term time only and as we are struggling with numbers simply wouldn't have enough money in the pot to pay costs and wait until the end of August for the final payment! Unless of course their interim payment is going to be a lot more than you are thinking!!!

 

Could a group of you get together and ask to meet with them to explain that you simply cannot run your businesses like that?

 

After all do they receive the lions share of their budget at the end of their financial year?

 

What a sorry state of affairs this is all becoming!!

[Rafa]

Have spoke to another provider who is equally seething. She pointed out that there was no consultation on changing our summer term dates to stretch to 26/8 - only mention of a change of headcount!! So Im not wrong!

We will get an increase in initial payment - but thats not the point!

Feel mad that they can just change our business plans without our agreement or knowledge!

[Joanne123]

Which county are you Rafa ?

[Guest]

Totally agree with you Rafa - sometimes it feels like we're a load of puppets, the LA pulling the strings!!!

[sunnyday]

 

Summer term will now apparently run from 11th April - 26th August - when we will receive our final payment! Well it doesnt run to 26/8 in my book!! We are term time only - whats happening? Looks like this is yet another move to sideline term time only settings to me!!

 

Fed up!

Well 'sod that for a game of soldiers' I am not surprised that you are 'fed up'

 

I'm really not sure that they can do that :blink: I know that I couldn't manage with that arrangement....

[Panders]

I think it is a great shame that LA's don't appear to understand that they are "buying" a service from us and as such they should be party to our policies not the other way around - my policy clearly states that fees are paid in advance half-termly unless I have made other arrangements on a case by case basis. Nowhere does it state that I'll hang around to be paid when a parent feels like it. The LA is in my opinion the "parent" here.

[Rafa]

Which county are you Rafa ?

Leicestershire

[sunnyday]

I think it is a great shame that LA's don't appear to understand that they are "buying" a service from us and as such they should be party to our policies not the other way around - my policy clearly states that fees are paid in advance half-termly unless I have made other arrangements on a case by case basis. Nowhere does it state that I'll hang around to be paid when a parent feels like it. The LA is in my opinion the "parent" here.

Absolutely - really hope that Kent don't get any ideas here :blink:

[Panders]

Rafa how do you feel about telephoning LA and saying that your setting closes for summer on the ..........July under the terms of your fee policy, which you are quite happy to let them have etc. they can see that you require your money by such and such a date?? See what happens? Possible threat of testing their "rules" in court if they default - you have a parent who is a solicitor and quite happy to help??? Fib fib, lie lie,you would like to speak to someone who has made this decision etc.

[Rafa]

I think it is a great shame that LA's don't appear to understand that they are "buying" a service from us and as such they should be party to our policies not the other way around - my policy clearly states that fees are paid in advance half-termly unless I have made other arrangements on a case by case basis. Nowhere does it state that I'll hang around to be paid when a parent feels like it. The LA is in my opinion the "parent" here.

 

............yes and one who should be reported for wilful neglect!!

[sunnyday]

Rafa how do you feel about telephoning LA and saying that your setting closes for summer on the ..........July under the terms of your fee policy, which you are quite happy to let them have etc. they can see that you require your money by such and such a date?? See what happens? Possible threat of testing their "rules" in court if they default - you have a parent who is a solicitor and quite happy to help??? Fib fib, lie lie,you would like to speak to someone who has made this decision etc.

Nice one my little black and white furry friend :1b

[lynned55]

That is outrageous! So for a child attending in April (when the term starts) you will get your final payment end of August???

 

I think I would to write to my head of EY's, explaining just how this will effect me and say this is not sustainable. If you get nowhere I would be inclined to get together with other settings and combine forces. Get your local councillor/MP involved.

I cant think that non term time settings such as daycare will be particularly happy with this either.

 

Think of all the extra interest they are going to be making whilst that money is languishing in their bank account for the additional 2/3 months rather than yours?

 

Oh my, that couldnt possibly be the reason they are doing it, could it?????

[finleysmaid]

Do you know who your rep is for the school forum? get on to them and ask why the heck they didn't say NO to this ridiculous idea. My husband suggested you should demand they pay their bill on time or you will take them to court!!!! (he was outraged!)

[thumperrabbit]

Do you know who your rep is for the school forum? get on to them and ask why the heck they didn't say NO to this ridiculous idea. My husband suggested you should demand they pay their bill on time or you will take them to court!!!! (he was outraged!)

My hubby was too they don't half get dragged into it all don't they? ::1a

[lsp]

Invoice them at the beginning of term for services provided giving the 28 days to pay or you will take legal advice!!! Just a thought, is it worth getting legal advice about this as it really could see some groups closing?

 

I think someone else has already asked, when do LA get the money from government, is it one lump sum for the year?

Edited March 3, 2016 by lsp

[Rafa]

Do you know who your rep is for the school forum? get on to them and ask why the heck they didn't say NO to this ridiculous idea. My husband suggested you should demand they pay their bill on time or you will take them to court!!!! (he was outraged!)

 

My hubby was too they don't half get dragged into it all don't they? ::1a

Yes my husband becomes a sounding board for all my early years frustrations!! - notice he's hiding behind a paper lately....!

 

Thanks for all words of support and empathy. I have looked at our Provider Contract and of course there is a clever clause saying something like: we reserve the right to change the way feee payments are made. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

I emailed them a curt response on Tues and so far they have'nt replied, so emailed again today. We have a Provider Meeting on the 14th and although we are always told at these meetings 'we can only take back your views....its nothing to do with us, yadda yadda yadda....Im hoping there will lots of other Term Time Only settings ready to complain loud and clear!!

 

If and when I receive an email response, I shall then make a formal complaint and see if that gets me anywhere. The thing is if others are not saying anything my weary, fed up, teed off voice is not going to change there decision is it? i cannot be the only setting with no extra money in a pot - we survive term to term, thats what I work my budgets on, and plus I now have an extra £500 living wage bill this term!! I shall write to my MP though because whatever anyone else in Leicestershire thinks, I am almost catatonic with rage that we can be treated in such an abismal way.

[Rafa]

Hi Jane, theres a good thread on here titled Changing Heacount Date -re The LEAs decision to extend the summer term....!

 

Would be good for you to read the views of not only Leicestershire but of other Early Years Settings around the country.

Pretty much everyone things its....... a very bad thing!!

Would appreciate it if you fed back the comments to whoever decided it was going to be acceptable

This. forum is our voice and thank goodness for it!

 

Look forward to reading more favourable news from Leicestershire.........

 

............ and sorry to start your thread on a negative note.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Rafa

[Rafa]

Have had an email response. Seems I may not have been the only voice! Been told there will be new information coming out next week and there is consideration being given to the 'new' end date of Summer Term. Also will be paid 120per cent of the spring terms payment as the initial summer payment. Not sure if that will be enough yet as havent done the Math! But feeling a bit happier tonite!

[Panders]

Yes my husband becomes a sounding board for all my early years frustrations!! - notice he's hiding behind a paper lately....!

 

Thanks for all words of support and empathy. I have looked at our Provider Contract and of course there is a clever clause saying something like: we reserve the right to change the way feee payments are made. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

I emailed them a curt response on Tues and so far they have'nt replied, so emailed again today. We have a Provider Meeting on the 14th and although we are always told at these meetings 'we can only take back your views....its nothing to do with us, yadda yadda yadda....Im hoping there will lots of other Term Time Only settings ready to complain loud and clear!!

 

 

Perhaps you can push for someone to attend the Providers' Meeting you can answer questions of Rafa. Try to do some canvassing of those settings you know beforehand get them whipped up a little.

 

You need an "ugly" mood that evening!!

 

But whatever you do make sure you make your feelings known by complaint!

 

This type of thing is the thin edge of the wedge

Edited March 4, 2016 by Panders

[lauraupton]

I would like to respond to the thread above started by 'Rafa' regarding the Free Early Education Entitlement in Leicestershire.

 

We have always worked closely with Leicestershire PVI Providers and did consult with providers on the changes, however response to the consultation was very low.

 

Due to a small number of providers (less than 1%) expressing concerns we will be looking at the issues that have been raised.

 

We value the diverse range of childcare providers that are on offer to Leicestershire parents and value the service they offer.

 

We always encourage providers in Leicestershire to raise any issues directly with us so that together we can try to resolve them.

 

 

Jo Fisher
Childcare Sufficiency and Business Support Team Manager

Leicestershire County Council

[Panders]

I would like to respond to the thread above started by 'Rafa' regarding the Free Early Education Entitlement in Leicestershire.

 

We have always worked closely with Leicestershire PVI Providers and did consult with providers on the changes, however response to the consultation was very low.

 

Due to a small number of providers (less than 1%) expressing concerns we will be looking at the issues that have been raised.

 

We value the diverse range of childcare providers that are on offer to Leicestershire parents and value the service they offer.

 

We always encourage providers in Leicestershire to raise any issues directly with us so that together we can try to resolve them.

 

 

Jo Fisher

Childcare Sufficiency and Business Support Team Manager

Leicestershire County Council

Why don't you think they responded in the numbers required to give you a true reflection on how they feel?

[Rafa]

Why don't you think they responded in the numbers required to give you a true reflection on how they feel?

Because Panders they did not explain how the changing headcount would affect our business. They're was no mention of spreading the funding payments over 52 weeks!

[lauraupton]

Rafa, I really don't think this is the best place to be having a discussion about Leicestershire County Council and how they conduct their business, if your issues are still not resolved to your satisfaction can you please direct your concerns to the FEEE helpline 0116 305 5788 or email feee@leics.gov.uk

 

This thread is becoming rather unprofessional towards Leicestershire County Council.

There are direct channels where you can communicate your concerns to the Local Authority, this forum is a means of sharing best practice to enhance and improve early years provision.

 

Laura

[sunnyday]

.......and a place for practitioners to share concerns.......

[lynned55]

.................. and major issues that can have an impact on a lot of settings.

[Guest]

In my humble opinion many of the issues within in this sector currently are exasperated by LA's and the government hiding behind ineffective consultations that rarely collect sufficient information to be a true representative response of those targeted!! Whilst it could be claimed that those within the sector are partly to blame for that lack of response; it could also be claimed that the language used within said consultations is so lacking in transparency that respondents are often unclear what they are actually being asked and therefore either give an ill informed response or simply lose the will and fail to respond!! Either way playing into the hands of those requesting the information. I have little faith in the consultation process often feeling that they are merely paper exercises for decisions that have already been made; perhaps to humour us all into actually believing that our responses could actually make a difference!!