Funding consultation

[sunnyday]

Sunnyday - beat you, similar course has come through from our LEA same length 2hrs ........ wait for it ............... £99 + VAT

Words fail me......

[sunnyday]

Actually - words won't fail me when I (eventually) get round to writing an update for my SEF.......

 

Also I will continue to protest to my LA whenever they attempt to make such charges.......

[finleysmaid]

Now can someone tell me something....my understanding is that funding for education and early years is paid direct to the lea's . The boroughs presumably take the money out of this budget to pay for support staff for education (so finance officer/head of service etc etc) as an early years setting the government then expects the LEA's to pay us £4.58 (ish...cant remember exact figure) but the local councils take off a top slice. now in theory this should be the same amount for each setting but in our borough (and in many others) this rate varies...so we are in essence penalised for not having a graduate leader ...or for not having enough children living in poverty! etc etc so that the actual rate we get is well below the governments funding.

Are we then actually paying the lea twice for services...once from the total budget and then again from the early years funding budget?.

Why do I feel that as an early years setting I am constantly paying out for services I do not get? The only thing I feel we now have is a finance officer who is on the ball and able to help (Brill ...but then they have a vested interest in making sure this is right!) We do have a support officer who I perhaps see once a term for a coffee!

Don't get me wrong we do have staff who appear to be working hard in the area....but I don't know what they are doing because none of it if is benefitting me!

so where is our money going and what are they doing with it? or have I got this completely wrong and can't see the bigger picture???

[finleysmaid]

ps and to add insult to injury they don't even pay for the forum any longer!

[Fredbear]

I am beginning to think that small PVI settings are not going to be in the bigger picture sadly in the future. Although we know we provide a huge service to each and every community. I cynically feel that the aim is to get all the children into schools. I'm not sure the majority of the schools or parents for that matter want this or are able to facilitate this either.

What I do know is that it's about time early years was recognised for the great role they play and should be paid a decent wage for it.

When the 3/4 funding was introduced in our LA a meeting was held and a discussion was had how to deliver a funding formula for each sector. Unfortunately we have never been invited since to a meeting to truly discuss the real costs now and the burdens we are encountering and we just continue to soldier on.:(

[lsp]

I am beginning to think that small PVI settings are not going to be in the bigger picture sadly in the future. Although we know we provide a huge service to each and every community. I cynically feel that the aim is to get all the children into schools.

I agree Fredbear. I think the 30 hours offer may be the final straw for small sessional/packaway/church hall types of groups. What is the point of offering 30 hours for working parents to take up, but in settings that may not be in a position to offer this all year round (this would include schools). How many employers are understanding enough to offer those kind of working hours - oh yes - US!

 

PS. IMO I do not think that anyone will actually be entitled and it is all a government plot to make people think they are being generous!

[mundia]

Hi Finleysmaid, it will depend and vary very much from LA to LA. You are entitled to ask how much, if anything is 'top sliced' from your Govt funding and what that money is spent on...this will vary between LAs as there is no set amount.

 

In terms of your overall funding for early years, this is not ring fenced, and therefore early years will have to fight their corner with the schools forum to get their piece of the pie. I presume this is the same everywhere but its certainly how it works in my LA. If you have a loud early years voice you'll get a bigger piece of the pie. As we have said elsewhere in this thread and others, since most of the statutory duties were taken away from LAs for early years, there are very few 'must funds; now and so almost every penny is up for debate. The shortfall then has to be made up by passing some costs onto providers...nobody likes this, certainly its made jobs very insecure if you don't meet financial targets etc. This is essentially why some LAs don't have any early years team any more and many are now charging for training and even visits. You're probably quite lucky that you still get regular visits as I cant make any any more, not unless settings meet certain criteria eg they are requires improvement or have lots of 2 year funded children for example. The biggest grumble I hear when I am out and about is 'we just don't see anyone any more'. I dont like it any more than anyone else does, I feel very distanced from the very people that make my world tick! But we are in a changing climate, I think the change is here to stay sadly.

 

So in a sense you are not paying twice for services. There may be some top slicing, which you are entitled to know about, but depending on what charges are made for training and CPD etc, chances are its heavily subsidized. So swings and roundabouts possibly. Where some members are reporting high expense for 2 hour training this is probably either that there is no EY budget, venues are extremely expensive to rent, or they are buying in a speaker.

[finleysmaid]

Thanks Mundia...feel I need to go away and have a think about this more before responding! (brain overload about something else!) however I really appreciate your reply. Unfortunately as to training I no longer take up any training from the borough as it does not meet the needs of our setting . None of the statutory stuff is subsidised and I would be very willing for them to use my hall FOC!!

[Littlesparklesnursery]

Ofsted big conversation held a similar conference- thankfully LEA wasn't involved. £9.50 3 hours! Tea and biscuits too!

[Guest]

Please may I give an another LA perspective on the issue of training and support costs - we used to provide training free or at very low cost, then "More Great Childcare" and follow on guidance came into being and we weren't able to do this anymore, as a previous post said providers could now access training and other support from "whomever they choose".

So our funding that we used for this disappeared (it did come from the amount we top sliced) and we had to compete with external training providers and with that came charges. We still do our level best to find ways of minimising costs and charges and keeping training local and we do manage to keep these costs well below what some national organisations charge for regionally, not locally, based training (why is no one questioning the charges some of these organisations make also?).

With regard to Ofsted seminars etc - aren't Ofsted funded/commissioned directly by government in the same way 4Children and others are funded by DfE to provide similar seminars etc under their "sole arbiter of quality " guise? - isn't that why the costs of those events are subsidised and low and also why they are so few in number?

It seems that there is a misconception that LA's still have some duty to provide free or low cost training, unfortunately we no longer do and what providers now have is the option to access (or not) training from whoever and wherever - that is not the fault or inception of any LA, that was a change in regulation that Elizabeth Truss the then Minister in the DfE introduced. It would seem to me a false economy for an LA to make exorbitant charges because surely you would then only succeed in driving people away and as providers are not a captive audience, would defeat the object of seeking to provide the service in the first place?

[hali]

We are still able to subsidise our training for providers although training has been cut drastically and although in the past training has been free as Bobadams says this is not a requirement but we have just had the money available so not charged.. Our settings are still lucky enough to get visits although not as often but as Mundia says this is a sign of the times and i feel will only get worse as we are only suposed to be supporting INAD and RI now. :(