Sam Gyimah MP speaks about pre-schools in schools

[Rea]

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/childcare-minister-speaks-about-more-pre-schools-in-schools

[Fredbear]

Thanks Rea. Have just taken a peek, need to think about this before making a comment.

[Guest cathy m]

I don't think I can repeat my thoughts!

 

This is much better

https://suecowley.wordpress.com/2014/10/22/ask-sam/

[SueJ]

Unlike Fredbear I don't think I can wait to share my comments !!!!!

Statement: It’s why I’m proud to say that going forward, school-led nurseries will be at the heart of our plan for education. Once again, I want to thank all of you who have helped improve the life chances of our young children, and we need to keep up this momentum to benefit them and their families.

Comment: For those of us in the PVI sector who for years have been saying that government policy and policy statements and rubbish funding levels have been trying to drive us out of business I think we have our answer

 

I hope one of the things you take from today is that we need to see more schools working with PVIs so they can learn from each other. We know there are great private, voluntary and independent providers out there and there is enough room for everyone.

We don’t expect schools to have to do this alone. We can help. And we want to see schools teaming up with private, voluntary and independent nurseries, sharing the best ways to work between themselves. That way, families can have the flexibility of private nurseries and the expertise of schools. The best of both worlds.

Comment 1: The two underlined phrases seem somewhat contradictory - as the schools seem to have all the expertise what can they possibly learn from the PVI sector!!!!!!!!!!!!! - no disrespect to our mainstream colleagues but this muppet is well on the way to making my blood boil

Comment 2: A nod to the fact that there is not enough physical space on all school sites to actually have their own early years facilities so PVI's will need to be "co-opted" into his "vision" to ensure that there is sufficient infrastructure for this "vision".

This man needs to go to specsavers (other sight testing facilities are available) and then perhaps instead of relying on Nursery World, Young People Now and sound bites from the EPPSE project to suggest he as any knowledge whatsoever of the sector he could open his eyes to how it really is at the sharp end!!!!! RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT

[Fredbear]

Ha SueJ I couldn't have put it better myself.

I am disgusted by the ignorance of the people in power in continuing to erode children's childhood.

A child's wellbeing should always be at the forefront of any decision making.

This is sadly way down the list of priorities it appears.:(:(:(:(:(

[thumperrabbit]

Don't particularly like it - but it's the way it's been going around here for awhile, many schools are starting to take 2yr olds, PVI settings, in-particular pre-schools, are closing all the time day nurseries are hanging on due to taking under 2's but the numbers are obviously reducing

[finleysmaid]

we must be in a VERY weird area...there is no way that schools in this area have the room to build on nurseries and certainly no room for 2 year olds. They don't even have enough room for the reception children...i often have children stay with me because they dont have a school place. And the implication from the joint venture line is that this will be led by the schools.....hum now let me think about that i am an outstanding setting and my local school is on special measures???!!!!!

[narnia]

Now, let's be fair here. This minister DOES have a 6 month old child, so he MUST understand all the principles, surely? I have long held the view that we are on a slippery slope to Communist country type care. The only part parents will play in their children's lives is to actually give birth to them, then they'll be slipped off to an 'education facility' to learn! I am from the generation where children went to school at 5. How on earth did we manage to be a generation that conquered mountains, split atoms,conducted heart transplants? Because we had a good childhood, where we spent time playing, conquering our own mountains and developing enquiring minds. Lots of our mums stayed at home and looked out for all the children. Yes, we all want to 'better ourselves', but my fear is that we are becoming slaves to mortgages, to keeping the machinery in motion. Lord help us all if we continue to rob our children of their childhoods....................if we have become a generation where the really important thing is that by sending children to school earlier, it helps them to' settle in to reception more easily'. I despair

Edited October 23, 2014 by narnia

[Guest lillybeth]

I ran my nursery for over 20 years parents raised fund for a new building on the school site stupid me agree to it we moved on to the school site, all was fine head retired new head appointed, after 3 years I was made redundant despite getting two outstanding inspections, all my knowledge was gleaned they have now moved forward with a teacher led nursery. There is no real outdoor play now, no free play nearly all adult directed play no independent learning, no independent snack time it just goes on and on, they have recently had Ofsted it was combined with the school Ofsted just seemed to accept the situation. Parents are not seen as partners I totally agree with Narnia children will loose their childhoods it is so sad. Within our sector we have acknowledged that out comes for children are improved when staff are better qualified, however what has happened in my situation the person now in charge of the nursery is a teacher but not early years trained so all the pedagogy has gone out of the window and the practice has regressed to what it was about 20 years ago, but parents are in a tricky position they want their children to go to these schools so they accept this poor practice. Sorry for the rant and I am sure not all school nurseries are like this .

[Rea]

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/early-years-pupil-premium-and-funding-for-2-year-olds

[eyfs1966]

Im sorry but it seems to me that this speech could have been written by Mr Wilshire,........... I had rather hoped that for once we might just get a minister who could stand up for himself and make up his own mind.

 

I found it a quite confusing speech, especially with regard to the roles of schools and pvi's. Despite reading several times, I just can't get a clear picture of how this would work. Rather I got the impression that school from two is "best", but where schools can't or won't provide for 2 year olds, then the good old PVI sector will have to pick up the scraps pieces.

For those of us in the PVI sector, I think the end is nigh!!

[eyfs1966]

And whilst I am in ranty mode. perhaps I could challenge Mr G and Mr W to show me beyond any doubt where the statistics are that show that School is better than nursery ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD WHERE CAPITAL INVESTMENT AND FUNDING ARE EQUAL AND WE ARE INSECTED BY THE SAME TYPE OF INSPECTOR ON THE SAME NOTICE OF INSPECTION

Rhetorial question, obviously!!

I mean no disrespect to those in schools, I KNOW you do a good job, but try doing the same job (and also the job of head, purchasing clerk, caretaker, secretary, cleaner, financial controller....I could go on) whilst on half pay, dipping deep into your own pocket to keep things going....

Its a miracle that many of us have survived as long as we have.

[Thumper]

Now, let's be fair here. This minister DOES have a 6 month old child, so he MUST understand all the principles, surely? I have long held the view that we are on a slippery slope to Communist country type care. The only part parents will play in their children's lives is to actually give birth to them, then they'll be slipped off to an 'education facility' to learn! I am from the generation where children went to school at 5. How on earth did we manage to be a generation that conquered mountains, split atoms,conducted heart transplants? Because we had a good childhood, where we spent time playing, conquering our own mountains and developing enquiring minds. Lots of our mums stayed at home and looked out for all the children. Yes, we all want to 'better ourselves', but my fear is that we are becoming slaves to mortgages, to keeping the machinery in motion. Lord help us all if we continue to rob our children of their childhoods....................if we have become a generation where the really important thing is that by sending children to school earlier, it helps them to' settle in to reception more easily'. I despair

I couldn't of put it better myself ?

[thumperrabbit]

I ran my nursery for over 20 years parents raised fund for a new building on the school site stupid me agree to it we moved on to the school site, all was fine head retired new head appointed, after 3 years I was made redundant despite getting two outstanding inspections, all my knowledge was gleaned they have now moved forward with a teacher led nursery. There is no real outdoor play now, no free play nearly all adult directed play no independent learning, no independent snack time it just goes on and on, they have recently had Ofsted it was combined with the school Ofsted just seemed to accept the situation. Parents are not seen as partners I totally agree with Narnia children will loose their childhoods it is so sad. Within our sector we have acknowledged that out comes for children are improved when staff are better qualified, however what has happened in my situation the person now in charge of the nursery is a teacher but not early years trained so all the pedagogy has gone out of the window and the practice has regressed to what it was about 20 years ago, but parents are in a tricky position they want their children to go to these schools so they accept this poor practice. Sorry for the rant and I am sure not all school nurseries are like this .

This is the experience we are seeing around here Lilybeth - lots of pre-schools see it as a means to an end by moving onto a school site, but then school take over.

The practice you describe is what I see when I go and visit other settings, usually school ones due to them being the main providers around here. The problem is parents are led to believe this is the best way because information is coming from a headteacher.

[eyfs1966]

This is the experience we are seeing around here Lilybeth - lots of pre-schools see it as a means to an end by moving onto a school site, but then school take over.

The practice you describe is what I see when I go and visit other settings, usually school ones due to them being the main providers around here. The problem is parents are led to believe this is the best way because information is coming from a headteacher.

How terribly sad....but this seems to be exactly what Sam Gyimah wants as the "way forward"

[diesel10]

The man must be an expert in childcare

 

He has a six month old

Thinks kids can tye laces before going to school

Thinks that people earn £27,000 more (most people don't earn 27,000)

Reads nursey world

Has visited a nursey and seen kids playing with water

 

I could go on.

[dreamgirl]

I am a teacher in a school based nursery. I don't want two year olds. I am stretched to the limits with my 60 place nursery of 3 and 4 year olds, emphasis on impact, outcomes, evidence impact, data, levels of progress, levels of attainment, etc etc etc. Have now been told on a SEN conference yesterday from Ofsted that early years will not be able to be rated good if you cannot evidence working with other PVI settings, day care etc. Crikey. When am I going to do this? Take my time away from my children in my setting for free to work with other settings who probably don't want me there anyway....when? After school? What about my clearing up, me doing my photos, talking with my staff, setting up for the next day etc etc. in the day? What about my children and staff? This should be coordinated by the LA ......oh, silly me. The government is gradually dismantling the LA . I hope the PVI sector don't think that school nurseries are endorsing these proposals. Well, I'm not.

[Guest]

Don't forget attending school staff meetings, subject responsibilities in school , pupil progress meetings, leadership meetings and the lack of a lunchtime between sessions, and putting up nursery displays in schools!

Edited October 23, 2014 by hudsod03

[dreamgirl]

Don't forget attending school staff meetings, subject responsibilities in school , pupil progress meetings, leadership meetings and the lack of a lunchtime between sessions, and putting up nursery displays in schools!

Ha! Indeed. I'm an idiot. How did I forget that. Left school tonight at 7.30. Have cooked tea for my family and am now trying to update Tapestry. Can't take much more. Shall I just give in and settle for RI? Maybe then I'll have a life.

[SueJ]

I hope the PVI sector don't think that school nurseries are endorsing these proposals. Well, I'm not.

I don't think anyone from the PVI sector on here think for one moment that our mainstream colleagues are endorsing any of the spoutings from our latest numpty in parliament - in terms of our parliamentary masters I suspect that they view us all (PVI and mainstream) as minions to pander (oops sorry Panders ) to their "expert" and "well-informed" policies.

At the moment I have a very cheeky little one in my setting who has a "lovely" gesture (which she delivers with some aplomb I must say) when she thinks someone is talking rubbish (I hasten to say this is not a gesture that she has learned at my setting rather something that she has "brought in" from home) - she turns her back, wiggles her "back end" and invites the speaker to "talk to the bottom" - maybe this is an action we could all adopt as our response

[Inge]

In this open letter to schools, Minister Gyimah outlines Government reforms which will make it easier for schools to offer nursery provision, including places for two year-olds.

https://www.facebook.com/educationgovuk/posts/783539151681871:0

 

as I found this on facebook will copy the letter here too...

Dear Colleague,

Ahead of next year’s school planning cycle, I am writing to you to let you know about Government reforms that are making it easier for schools to offer nursery provision, including for two-year-olds. Crucially, we are working to remove the need for schools to register their provision for two-year-olds separately with Ofsted. As this change will be in place for September 2015, I wanted to give you sufficient notice to begin your planning now. Whether you already have a nursery offer and are thinking of taking two-year-olds, or do not currently have a nursery, now is a great time to consider extending what you do.

You will all know that a good start in life is critical to a child’s future prospects. The evidence supporting children’s involvement in good quality early education is well established, and schools that offer nursery provision have described to us three main benefits:

• measurable differences in the attainment and behaviour of the children who attend the nursery, particularly the more disadvantaged;

• that the school can work with children and their parents much earlier, bringing in external help sooner when required. This helps to get children ready for school and makes the transition to Reception easier for everyone; and

• being able to offer provision that is popular with working parents, and attractive to parents considering which school to send their children to.

So through the Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill, which is currently making its way through Parliament, we plan to remove the need for schools to register their provision for two-year-olds separately with Ofsted. This will also mean an end to separate inspection timetables for two-year-old provision and the rest of the school.

However, this does not mean that schools have to run the provision themselves. Instead, you could work in close partnership, either with other schools in the area, or with a third-party provider to offer some or all of your nursery places. This can save you the need to develop and manage provision, or solve any problems of space. And it works best where both parties are focused on continuity of education and support as a child progresses into Reception.

We are also making it easier to form these sorts of partnerships, and through the same Bill we will:

• allow childcare providers to register once for several locations, thus reducing bureaucracy;

• allow childminders to work on non-domestic premises, thus making it easier for them to work with, and through, schools.

Subject to the passage of the Bill, we will introduce these changes as soon as we can after removing the need for separate registration of provision for two-year-olds.

So, as I’ve said, this is a great time to consider your early years offer and how it could be developed. You should also find out from your local authority what money or support might be available locally to help you to do this. It is easier than ever for schools to open or extend nurseries, and will get easier still.

With best wishes
Sam Gyimah MP
Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Childcare and Education

 

[thumperrabbit]

Who is going to do the admissions for these 2yr olds?

and when they've spent 2yrs in a school nursery and then don't get into the Reception class how upset are the parents going to be?!

[Guest]

I teach in Year R. I am qualified to teach years r to 3. No-one in my school is qualified to work with pre-schoolers.

How come someone thinks we have expertise in providing for 2 year olds??

All the children who come to my school (150 each year) have attended various PVI settings, and are, for the most part, ready and eager to learn and confident little beings.

It really saddens me each Summer when I have the privilege of visiting my new intake children in their settings that so many staff are nervous because I come from the school, and therefore 'must know more' as one PVI manager said. I don't, and I would not have a clue where to begin to set up a nursery.

I am lucky that the PVI's I work with are happy to work with me, and we are building good friendships and working together for all our children.

Surely each of us doing our best within our areas of knowledge, and sharing practice with each other is better than trying to muddle through?

Politicians? Yuck