How much have you wanted an employee.....

[Guest Nuby]

...that you negotiate their pay beyond what you would normally pay.......and they turned out amazing.....or rubbish....its a real gamble isn't it?

 

[woodlands1997]

You can't put pay down, or you can but very hard! We do performance related bonuses, that way if they aren't as good as you thought you don't have to give them a bonus and you aren't stuck with paying them too much and feeling guilty on the others who aren't getting as much but are probably as good! If they are really good you can give them a bonus!

[Guest sn0wdr0p]

What do you base your performance related pay on please woodlands1997?

[woodlands1997]

We have guidelines for completing observations, learning journeys and assessment records which are really clear. Things like eyfs links need to be filled in, they need to be shared with parents etc. So then we look at them closely, whether all links are completed, whether they have noted something generally each time they come, whether they have been done on time etc. this way it's clear to see and there's not much subjectivity (although still some)! No one knows who has had a bonus and who hasn't (unless they talk between themselves)!

[Guest Nuby]

bonus! I like! x

[Guest]

Surely you have a pay scale and should not be giving different pay from that,

Bonus's for what essentially is 'doing their job!'

[catma]

For teachers now it is whether they progress up the scale points or not. Personally I would say completing assessments was part of the job (i.e. for teachers it's in the teachers standards).

Shouldn't a "bonus" be for something over and above, that is about the wider effectiveness of the person and their impact on the outcomes for children?

Cx

[woodlands1997]

Yes it is effectively 'doing their job' but you can so tell the difference through the paperwork of someone who really knows their key children, puts the effort in and thinks about what they are doing with them etc than someone who is just doing the bare minimum. We would like to pay staff more (private nursery) but it isn't always possible, this way they can be on £6.50 for example then if we have a busy term and they have worked hard can give them a bonus to reflect the difference of thinking actually they should have been on £7 say (just an example of pay). It works for us, staff now if it's quiet then they may not get one or it may be small and they appreciate this. At the end of the day it makes them feel more valued we find and it works for us!

 

With teachers catma isn't it performance related and meeting the targets etc anyway as to whether they progress up the pay scales (I'm not sure how this works), we have to make it measurable in some way and take everything into when working bonuses out, but don't do it on how many of their children 'hit the next band' or anything as I don't think that's right x

[Guest sn0wdr0p]

I can imagine some of mine getting pretty huffy if they were missed out but in honesty I know exactly who would and wouldn't get a bonus though.

I think it's a pretty good idea. I gave my apprentice £100 for her 18th as in honesty her pay is pretty rubbish and I have seen a real difference in her work since then.

[woodlands1997]

I think it does make a difference to their work and if someone misses out and finds out we can clearly show why they have missed out so I personally don't think it does any harm! As you say - you know exactly who would and wouldn't anyway this is just a way of affirming those that really work hard and put thought and care into their job. Ideally everyone should be doing their job to the best of their ability anyway but in reality we've found that doesn't happen!!!

[Stargrower]

I can see where you're coming from, but what about the children / families of the staff who don't make the grade and get a bonus? Don't they miss out by having a key person who isn't doing their best?

[woodlands1997]

Yes but that would be being dealt with or begun to be dealt with once it was realised this was the case, through performance improvement plans, extra training, support etc. If they don't get a bonus because they 'aren't good enough' I promise you we don't just leave them to continue like this :-)

[Guest]

we've been thinking about going down this route as we just aren't sure whether a hike in pay is sustainable long term. This way (as long as it's clearly measurable and transparent to all) then those that need rewarding can be; though we also recognise that a few quid here and there isn't the main motivator so may look for other 'rewards'

 

and I have also thought 'hold on, I'm going to be rewarding them for doing the job/standard they are supposed to do' but if it means it does get done consistently to that standard then I'm thinking it's a win/win

[Guest]

I've recently just done this - well twice this year! And it's been worth every penny (sorry by this I mean) I've paid over the odds. I look at experience, what they can bring to the nursery and whether they've personally extended themselves.

 

I've looked at bonus related pay before and I tend to give a pay rise based upon length of service and appraisals. I'm also introducing health insurance this year as an added incentive.

[catma]

With teachers catma isn't it performance related and meeting the targets etc anyway as to whether they progress up the pay scales (I'm not sure how this works), we have to make it measurable in some way and take everything into when working bonuses out, but don't do it on how many of their children 'hit the next band' or anything as I don't think that's right x

Hi,

this is from the DfE guidance on performance related pay:

"factors schools could consider when assessing teachers’ performance. This includes a teacher’s:

• impact on pupil progress
• impact on wider outcomes for pupils
• contribution to improvements in other areas (eg pupils’ behaviour or lesson planning)
• professional and career development
• wider contribution to the work of the school, for instance their involvement in school business outside the classroom"

As far as I am aware this now means that teachers don't automatically go up the scale points any more but have to be assessed as able to do so. Pay is performance related. Also school budgets mean that in some schools this could be rationed so not everyone could get to progress.

Hence strikes by NUT/NAS/UWT etc.

Cx

[Guest]

I think bonus related pay is very unfair . What one member of staff brings into the setting another one does in another way, we are a team and all have something to contribute what is a strong point for one is maybe not so strong for someone else

 

Poor performance should be dealt with through appropriate systems, and support given through CPD, in house training, buddying etc

 

For a job well done there is to raise and satisfaction of a good job done.

 

We all deserve better pay, sadly until we are funded and supported better by government that won't happen, I don't think pay should be bolstered by bonus when it is not given to all

[Mouseketeer]

I'm with Suer on this one, for one thing it must create a 'favourites' situation within the team, the staff getting bonuses would find a way to let the non- getters know (that's just human nature), we do give a bonus to all at Xmas, but it is a % bonus related to pay as when it was the same amount each staff working more hours a week lost out because they had tax deducted!

[woodlands1997]

But the problem with a raise is it just may not be sustainable. What you can afford to pay one term as you're full to the brim may the next term be big issue as you just can't afford it and you can't say well for this term you're getting £7 but next term you may have to go back to £6.80 for example.

 

If everyone put their heart and soul into it it would be fine but it may just be us but we so find attitude and work ethic a problem in some staff members. Last term everyone got a relative bonus, no one missed out but other terms it has been different.

 

Each to their own, this works for us, our staff and our setting and we don't just not give a bonus because they're not 'our favourite' we look at it as a whole.

[Cait]

I used to add a 'scale point' rise for anyone who took on additional work. So the person who had Senco duties had an additional amount per hour (to help with any additional time needed for the role). Someone else had an increment increase for taking on H&S. So all on a grade had the same basic, but could improve it by taking on additional roles and responsibilities. This was deemed fair by everyone. So theoretically, the 'can't be bothered' folk would never get any increase above base rate

[Mouseketeer]

I wasn't implying you did woodland, just that it may be how staff not earning bonuses perceive it and the upset that could cause, it doesn't take a lot for some people to go off of an even keel, and surely you can't not give pay rises because your numbers might be lower from one term to the next, many businesses are season driven, as you say the summer term is often bursting, which reflects a much higher income which does then prop up other terms, particularly the Autumn term, but taken as a whole year you can tell whether you can sustain a pay rise and at what level.

[Guest Nuby]

I think its the manner in which its done that could be an issue and not the bonus itself.......there are those that do the bare minimum and those staff that you would love to clone..... yes all contributing in their own 'special' way BUT some more than others.....surely those` that show more should get more........ Isnt this what we are constantly 'fighting' the government for - equal status re: EYPS/QTS etc etc....we want to be recognised for our efforts and contributions seeing as we are doing the most important job......I don't know.......should we be recognised for going above and beyond or just for contributing, big or small..... slopes off to thinking corner to ponder...... x

[trekker]

This all strikes a cord with me right now -

The way I see it where there is no incentive to do more, however that is shown there is then a very strong incentive to keep going on just as they have done! Why bother doing any more.

:-(

[Guest Nuby]

Valid and very strong points made by everyone.....I am in a quandary..... Serious debate going in on my head at the mo.....

 

How would I feel if others were rewarded and I wasn't? ............aha!! its all coming back to me now..... Several years ago in my heydays of room leading.... my manager used to give out the coveted employee of the month certificates with chocolates, flowers or wine as voted for by the whole team

.....month after month went by and I never got one despite doubling my room occupancy, amazing activities, happy parents, learning journeys to die for etc etc. Then I thought there must be something I am not quite doing well here and voila! ...I was your get the job done and go home person...I forget staff relationships and never liked the whole being all friendly and personable blah, blah, blah...I was about the job not the staff!

....over the next several weeks, I brought in choccies, I paused to say genuine thankyou's, I went out of my way to be 'NICE!' to people.... I became personable and started to value those around me more and actually caring and it felt good.....the ''bigger picture'' penny dropped....SUFFICE to say I got the certificate and you'll be pleased to know I have changed and aged and grown up and that was the start of my journey into management and understanding that its people that shape our working lives! :)

......crikey reading this back....if I would do that for a certificate and wine God knows what you'd get out of me for a bonus! :lol: :lol:hahahaha!!!!!! xx

[Guest Nuby]

....actually these days you can buy me real cheap.... just some enthusiasm for early years practice and a few dribbles of passion for quality learning environments and I'm all yours!! B)

[Mouseketeer]

Lol Nuby they didn't vote for you because you were doing too much and showing them all up ;-p

[woodlands1997]

Ideally we just need the funding to pay everyone a much better wage, maybe one day....

[sunnyday]

 

Each to their own, this works for us, our staff and our setting and we don't just not give a bonus because they're not 'our favourite' we look at it as a whole.

That's it in a nutshell in my humble - we all have to decide what works for us - there is no right or wrong answer as far as I can see :1b

[MarshaD]

Nuby - that reminds me of my kids - keep your head down, get on with it types - they always complained bitterly that they didn't get chosen as star of the week, it was always given to the 'challenging' kids who'd had one good day. Having been guilty of this myself I had to explain the whole catch them being good philosophy, but they never felt it was fair. There's a lot to be said for those who can be relied upon to quietly put in the hard yards, they are often overlooked.

[Guest]

Should have said praise not raise!

[Guest]

We do more because that's our job and if those people just can't be bothered then they should not be working in our settings for our children who deserve the very best

 

These practitioner's who don't do need to be managed because just doing is not good enough our parents expect more than that and our children deserve more.