Rea Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Two members have 2 years olds, they could see how difficult it would be to have them playing in a room of nearly 5s. Two and halfs are slightly better equiped.
finleysmaid Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Two members have 2 years olds, they could see how difficult it would be to have them playing in a room of nearly 5s. Two and halfs are slightly better equiped. i absolutely agree there is a huge shift from 2 to 2.5
flowlow Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 this is quite a good link to watch under the circumstances http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_how_to_escape_education_s_death_valley#t-282858
sunnyday Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Whilst looking through some of my Key Groups Learning Journey folders with them this morning, I thought perhaps I should send copies to 'Sir Michael' - hopefully he would recognise all the fantastic learning that has taken place in my very small village pre-school :1b 7
eyfs1966 Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Yes, but could a parent on a deprived estate find you? That is the question posed by Mr W. He believes they can't find any of us! Why the solution is "schools" rather than propper "signposting through local authorities" I don't know. Apparently we can only be found by the chattering classes! 4
Panders Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Yes, but could a parent on a deprived estate find you? That is the question posed by Mr W. He believes they can't find any of us! Why the solution is "schools" rather than propper "signposting through local authorities" I don't know. Apparently we can only be found by the chattering classes! We debated this too at work this morning. What was the point of Children Centres opening up in these poorer areas, offering nursery provision? If they couldn't make it financially viable - why should Sir Michael expect PVI's to open up there? I refuse to believe that parents are so lacking in common sense that they cannot find a pre-school, or know a pre-school group they can go to. Very sadly, the groups I find that do turn up very late in the day to enroll, or think that our pre-schools/nurseries are run on the same lines as those in their own countries, and accept children at any time and never have turn a child away are ethnic minority groups of parents, these are the parents that should be targeted in the future to ensure that they are aware of where their local groups are and that they should apply when their children are still very young, not when they are already 3 or 4 years old. 2
sunnyday Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Yes, but could a parent on a deprived estate find you? That is the question posed by Mr W. He believes they can't find any of us! Why the solution is "schools" rather than propper "signposting through local authorities" I don't know. Apparently we can only be found by the chattering classes! Ah, right, could they 'find us' - yep I reckon they could :1b I get enquiries from all sorts of families, from all sorts of areas! :1b Added to that our nearest CC + Health Visitors are very good at 'sign posting' - actually as is our SALT 'Chattering classes' - I may have mentioned elsewhere - I cannot believe he actually said that discussion with a few of my parents this morning (note here - they are really cross about all of this - I think that's very reassuring) - I said to them "you realise that it's you and people like you that he is referring to"! :rolleyes: 3
finleysmaid Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 is it not the health visitors duty to sign post these families....but then there aren't enough of those either are there? so how would they find us......HV/library/internet (apparently (96% have them) the local FIS (which is run by the lea and is supposed to list all those who are ofsteded)/our local school would also tell them! doctors surgeries/council notice board/ net mums/mums net and of course word of mouth ....er is this not enough? 3
Guest Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 I don't think I had realised until now that our education system is in such a dire state that the only letters that many adults recognise are: 'C L H O O and S' !!
eyfs1966 Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 I don't think I had realised until now that our education system is in such a dire state that the only letters that many adults recognise are: 'C L H O O and S' !! Perhaps we should make that the new SATIPN of letters and sounds! 2
HappyMaz Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 (Did he really say 'chattering classes') He did! I found this interesting though:- "Setting up play and learning as opposites is a false dichotomy. The best play is challenging. The favourite game is the one that promises mastery of a new skill. The most soothing story is a familiar one. The regularly repeated nursery rhyme stays with us for life. Learning, even at the earliest stages, can be an exciting experience – why deny that excitement to our toddlers?" He might be saying school is the best place for these very young children, but I didn't see anywhere that he's talking about formal learning at that age. I'm very interested in what he said about fifteen hours not being enough for our most vulnerable children - wonder how the Government will cope with providing more?
Guest sn0wdr0p Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 I have just discovered the Save Childhood Movement website and the Too Much Too Soon Campaign website. They have a proforma letter to send to your MP. I had a look at the netmums website to get an idea of what mums thought and they were almost universal in their condemnation of Sir M W's comments and some spoke of taking action - which led me to the above. Rather pleased that there is a lot of resistance to his ideas. Looks like a day of action may get a lot of support.
HappyMaz Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Are they planning another day of action? I was on the last one in October, and I have to say although everyone who attended was very passionate about the cause, we didn't exactly stop traffic on our march to the Houses of Parliament.
finleysmaid Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 i guess one of our issues is that we do not have any particular unionized representation....unless we all join together with'one voice' then our views will be lost....the psla are incredibly quiet about all this...i begin to wonder what they are there for. Pacey does seem to have a say but even they get shut out quite quickly, never thought i would be a union person but i am beginning to understand the one for all and all for one thing! When do the results from ths school trials come out? aren't 49 schools already taking two year olds....do we get to hear how that has gone??
Panders Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 PLSA are rather slow, I find, to react to anything - maybe they get government funding! When we had the funding problems years ago they did not become involved and supportive of their members, that's when I gave up membership, they just didn't have a voice. This reinventing of the wheel every few years in early years is exhausting but behind closed doors we still carry out best practice and children still thrive and achieve in good pre school provision, despite changes, not always because of them. 1
sunnyday Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 PLSA are rather slow, I find, to react to anything - maybe they get government funding! When we had the funding problems years ago they did not become involved and supportive of their members, that's when I gave up membership, they just didn't have a voice. Think they lost quite a few Kent members at that time Panders! :rolleyes: A Bob Crow quote 'If you fight you may lose, if you don't fight you will lose'......... That said I didn't attend the last 'day of action' ........so maybe I should keep quiet
Rea Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 http://www.cityam.com/debate/1396543962/ofsted-chief-sir-michael-wilshaw-right-children-should-start-school-age-two https://www.pre-school.org.uk/media/press-releases/481/alliance-criticises-ofsted-early-years-recommendations A couple of the places Neil Liecth has been speaking. He was on BBC radio 5 too. He'll be speaking at our AGM in October too.
finleysmaid Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 well my apologies to Mr Leitch....shame that as a long standing member of the PSLA that this information was not sent to us direct so that we could get behind him all the way! 1
Panders Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 Me Leitch needs to get on his soap box and tell the world at large - not preach to the already converted. Why isn't he getting on prime time tv having a go back at Ofsted? That's just what tv companies relish! I love what he is saying but if he really isn't getting 'out there' how will the ordinary man in the street ever know about it? 5
sunnyday Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 well my apologies to Mr Leitch....shame that as a long standing member of the PSLA that this information was not sent to us direct so that we could get behind him all the way! I would save your apologies fm - he should, as Panders said, be making some real 'noise' for us I 'joined up' again the year before last, after a long time of being out - this following their complete lack of a voice way back when the Kent nurseries and pre-schools were engaged in a battle over funding (Panders mentioned this earlier)......not really sure why I bothered - we have completed a couple of their freebie on-line training thingies and have received copies of 'Under 5' - but that's it - there's no 'local branch' anymore........not sure I will renew my membership this year it's prohibitively expensive I don't insure through them so all in all I'm not sure that I can justify the cost (or they can justify their fee ) 3
LKeyteach Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 I too am not in the least happy about this report. There are two issues I would like to throw into the argument. Children who start school with little or no language and lack social skills. Well could it be that children who are on the Autistic Spectrum are being expected to start in mainstream class who could be in need of support. I know there is a debate of mainstream with support or specialist provision. I do not have the answer, but I will be sending two children to school this September who are on the spectrum still awaiting diagnosis. They have had 1:1 support with me and speech, language and occupational therapy, but will probably not get a statement. It is up to the school as to whether they will have support when they start but it certainly won't be the 1:1 they have with me. So does that nice Ofsted man include children like my two treasures in his thinking about children who are not ready to start school. I am in the private sector. This year I was considering building an extension to increase the number of children I take and that may have included 2 year olds in their own area. But I will not invest now, not if there is the chance that my business may be taken away and given to a school. One final point is that the report states that 78% of us are good or outstanding and are providing the service the way it is meant to be. The findings that seem to be firing this report is 22% that are not providing good or outstanding. It seems crazy to me to asking 78% to close down and allow an untried and untested school approach. Whatever happens next, we should stick together, have an underground movement of thinking, playing, fun, loving understanding, non-Ofsted Playpeople! What fun that could be. 3
starsdance Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 "Too many of our poorest children are getting an unsure start because the early years system is letting them down" taken from Unsure Start But I though that children didn't have to be in formal education until the term after they are 5 (is this going to change?) so what about all those parents who don't work and don't send their children to pre-school or equivalent or if they do only do one or two days a week as it suits them. These are the parents that, god forbid, want to actually spend time with their children as they like them..... Is there going to be a separate list at school that says as little Johnny didn't go anywhere before school it's not his fault that he's behind but Timmy did so lets blame the pre-school. I am in the process of printing the report so guess what my bedtime reading will be. 4
Jeany Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 Responses finally http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/nursery-world/news/1143299/ofsteds-report-sector-reaction
LKeyteach Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 Also another thought. I work in a diverse area, I advertise, although I don't need too. I get some FEET families and have had children referred by social services. What I say next is not a judgement but an observation - some of these families are such poor attenders, I write, txt, phone and keep dialogue going, but sometimes they have no wish to participate. There is only so far I can go. I have a nursery full of children who wish to be there and parents who mostly see the benefit to what we do. I make huge strides to engage those who may find it difficult to be engaged, but at the end of the day there has to be some commitment from these families too. I know some of the families have had older children in compulsory school and they did not attend there either. I can see no point to "encouraging" non engaged families to engage in the institutions they are avoiding like schools. 1
HappyMaz Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 so what about all those parents who don't work and don't send their children to pre-school or equivalent or if they do only do one or two days a week as it suits them. These are the parents that, god forbid, want to actually spend time with their children as they like them..... As a stay-at-home mum myself I recognised that my children needed to be in an early years setting for so many different reasons (and this was many years before I decided to embark on my training pathway). It had nothing to do with whether I liked them or not. I'd hate to think that I was being judged on my decision to send my children to nursery.
HappyMaz Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 I work in a diverse area, I advertise, although I don't need too. I get some FEET families and have had children referred by social services. Can you explain what FEET families are? This is an age-old problem really: early education is obviously non-statutory and as such it is hard to compel families to send their children, really. I think we've discussed elsewhere on the Forum the ethical issues though, about the fact that public funds are involved in providing these places for all funded children, and whether this places an obligation on families to ensure their children attend (and the likely consequences of funding being removed from settings if their attendance figures are not high enough). It is a real conundrum, and I'm not sure I know what the answer is. Who'd be a politician? :blink:
green hippo Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 Unfortunately we live in a society where staying at home with our children is frowned upon by many! And if we choose to send our children to a pre-school they are then COMPLETELY to blame if they are not at an expected level! I think there will always be a problem of accessing the families that do not want to be accessed! I went to my local children's centre and generally met similar people to me - people that already gave their children a range of different experience, spoke to them, played with them, educated themselves about good parenting etc etc. The families that the Children's centre was originally there for rarely accessed the services. Of course there are outreach workers but they can only do so much. I really do think that more has to be done with families - we do what we can from our settings and boy do we try hard to get those families engaged but if they won't come or just use us as a babysitting service then it is extremely difficult. How can early years system be failing children who don't attend. I do not think you should worry too much about your little ones being taken away from you by schools. My school, as well as a number of others in our local area, have no intention of taking 2 year olds or even those that turn 3 within the year. We are full with 3-4 year olds. We would need an extension to provide for anymore children and money spent on provision - IT WON'T HAPPEN! I think the ONLY benefit of being near or with a school is that those parents who are FORCED to take their children who are of statutory age to school may decide to bring any younger children to the pre-school. Like many, I am becoming demoralised by both what is happening in early years and education in general. I have seriously considered a change of career or a different route while still working with children. Can I do things that I don't believe in or have enough fight left to fight for what I believe is right? I know we have to keep strong for the children but it is becoming increasingly difficult. (and I know I'm on much better pay than many of you as QTS). I was educated in the 80's and went to playgroup then started school when I was 4 (in the April before my summer birthday). I did not have any access to continuous provision and although did well at school and can put myself to many things, I am not creative (I like instructions!, have low self-esteem and had some problems with shyness and socialising with less-familiar children. I'm not saying this is all to do with my education but it didn't help me to develop these important skills. I don't want to be forced into doing this to young children. Sorry for the rambling post - just getting my thoughts out! Green hippo x 1
dreamgirl Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 I am the eyfs leader in a nursery in a primary school. I do not want to take two year olds. I don't think our set up is appropriate. Bit too structured. And I feel at full stretch with the 3 and 4 year olds we have. Our recent January intake are very young three year olds, if you know what I mean, and this has completely changed the dynamics of the afternoon session. The older ones who are going to school in September aren't really getting much of a look in at the moment as we are so dominated by the new intake. It will be even worse with two year olds. School may not be the right place for two year olds.
thumperrabbit Posted April 14, 2014 Posted April 14, 2014 I do not think you should worry too much about your little ones being taken away from you by schools. My school, as well as a number of others in our local area, have no intention of taking 2 year olds or even those that turn 3 within the year. We are full with 3-4 year olds. We would need an extension to provide for anymore children and money spent on provision - IT WON'T HAPPEN! Green hippo x 4 schools are now taking 2yr olds in our town and all schools take the day that children turn 3 - In our area unfortunately schools see the £££ signs but then moan when they actually can't make ends meet <_<
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