Devondaisy Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Has anyone seen this? http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/literacy-non-negotiable-learning-through-play-and-establishing-foundations I know a nursery class is very different from the pre-school where I work, as we have such a mix of ages, but I still can't imagine the majority of the pre-schoolers I have (who will be going up to reception in September) being able to write in sentences by the summer term! Does link in quite nicely with the government's resonse to the nutbrown review focussing more on 'teaching' in the early years though... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I find this a bit disturbing actually.... Firstly where is the child initiated play. My cohort have to learn to speak english before i can teach phonics and the rose review made it quite clear that this should be introduced in their reception year. I feel like shouting "let our children be children!!" i am neither impressed by this video or feeling inspired by it :angry: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 How old do you think the nursery children are in the first vid? I am with you Finleysmaid I think I see learning through play as a natural learning process based on what the children enjoy, and children should be allowed to be children not learning sentences etc so young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyfs1966 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) I am really quite shocked by this. At first I assumed they MUST be reception, but no, the film clearly calls them nursery children. I would love to hear from all the recption teachers on this forum if this is mirrors the experience inthe nurseries of their schools, or whether they would consider this more typical of a reception class. I know the film makes reference to the fact that the children are in their 3rd term, ie shortly to go up to reception, and I know the revised EYFS places an emphasis on school readiness but I didn't see 1 minute of child initiated activities anywhere during that film. Frankly, If this is what is now expected of our 4 year old's, I may as well give up and leave!! Edited February 1, 2013 by eyfs1966 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green hippo Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Frightening! I thought that the WHOLE POINT of Phase 1 phonics was to give them all the pre-phonics they need in order to succeed when they are formally taught phonics in Reception? When the teacher talks there is no mention of these pre-phonics skills just letters and sounds? I have a few children in my Nursery class now who are starting to write letters to match the sounds they can hear - mostly at the beginning of words - bearing in mind that most of my children are average or above. But most of the children are just starting to write to communicate, using some recognisble letter etc. Quite a few a still working on their pencil grip and control. I feel this sort of 'teaching everything as early as possible' approach will leave a number of children switched off from writing before they've discovered how exciting and purposeful it can be! Green Hippo x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Frankly, If this is what is now expected of our 4 year old's, I may as well give up and leave!! .....wait for me........ I heard and read the reference to 'Nursery' too.......but find it hard to believe........ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I find this very worrying and actually the reason why 'school readiness' filled me with such dread! the children actually look lifeless! why can't we allow our children to be children? have we not learnt anything from all the countries whose children are committing suicide at 6 because of the pressure they are under? what about all the research about brain development and child centred free flow play? I am actually going to show this to my staff as what I don't want in our setting!!!!!!! I would be proud not to be outstanding if this is what I would have to replicate 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoolahoney Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Here here Johanna1! I can understand reception/year 1 being like this but in early years it just feels like pushing them too young, they learn so many essential life and social skills at this age and sentence structure is way down on my list of what to teach!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green hippo Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I wonder if that teacher has been 'training' those children from Birth? There's also no evidence to show the impact on the child of this style of teaching in a few years time... will they be able to 'create' a story, make friends, work with others, apply their knowledge and skills, think critically, be generally creative... Are we not currently battling with a generation of parents who were disengaged from education from an early age, failed to 'do well' at school because it was boring and uninspiring...? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Couldn't agree more Green Hippo! I wonder where that video fits into the Characteristics of Learning looking at the break down you don't have to read very far to find 'play with the children...' 'help children as needed to do what they are trying to do WITHOUT taking over or directing' ' Join in play SENSITIVELY' ' Ensure children have uninterrupted time to PLAY and EXPLORE' ' support children to CHOOSE their activities - what they want to do and how they will do it' do we read on???? I read a chilling article when I was doing my degree and it said that the numbers of children who don't have the social and emotional skills to 'cope' with everyday life was rising along with stress and emotion based ailments/illness resulting in mental health problems in young people being on the increase. It finished saying that we were creating generations of children who would not be emotionally resilient enough to run the country (or the world) scary stuff and you look here and think well this is why! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynned55 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) I think this is terrible- it's like going backwards. I feared this with the ref to 'school readiness' but was assured quite definitely by our EYA that as children did not have to start school until the term after they were 5 , it applied to reception children only. It's quite worrying though isn't it and I dont think I for one will be able to run a group like that. Even the eldest of my children some of whom will be 5 in sept/Oct would struggle to do those activities, As for those with August birthdays, goodness some have only been with us a term and have only just started talking to us, never mind sounding out SH EE P!! Edited February 1, 2013 by lynned55 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 where is child initiated, independence in choosing and collaborative play in the horrendous nursery vid. didn't dare looking at reception!! what a dull dull day for little ones. i wonder if they get to play at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 all back to topics and trying to fit everything in around a chosen one... that was the feeling I got of both..reception one seemed very much that way.. Seem to be beginning that circle again.. didnt DLOs have children reading and writing in preschools... was working but not running one hen and distinctly remember being asked to 'teach' writing and worksheets and all that enforced stuff by the setting I was working in.. funnily enough it all vanished when I took it over... despite what they said.. have always been one for child led and choices since working in an army setting that was so structured they grouped children and told each group what to play with so a set amount of time... funnily enough that changed there when I took that one over! And schools we fed have always been very happy with the children we pass on to them, ready to learn, engage and listen, coping with own needs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 My reception class are from affluent backgrounds, all attended preschools or nurseries and they are achieving well overall. But they are only just getting to the level illustrated in the first video and I suspect some of them won't be that able at the end of the year. I find it difficult to believe that the class is nursery and if they are I also worry about the experiences they have had that lead them to be as they are in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyfs1966 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I am sure I read somewhere on the Ofsted site that children enetering reception should be on average secure at 30-50 months. These children were clearly at ELG...what have I missed??? Also, I was told that letters and sound at nursery should really be phase1. These children were phases 3 and 4! Now i am all for pushing on the most able, but there's pushing on and pushing on!!!! Still post Liz Truss, I guess we will have no one to ask for advice from the LEA. Her theory seems to be that Ofsted will be the only arbiteur of standards. Is this really the standard for nursery from now on? Surely a "best practice" example should be best practice as per the statutory framework. I can't see how the clip justifies that at all!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyfs1966 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Just a thought, but how could we as a forum query this clip with Ofsted and ask for clarification as to the ethos of "learning through play" that was so fundamentally missing in this totally audult led series of interactions? Could we also ask for clarification on the staging of the phases in letters and sounds? Any ideas on how we could make a formal enquiry on behalf of the forum?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Just a thought, but how could we as a forum query this clip with Ofsted and ask for clarification as to the ethos of "learning through play" that was so fundamentally missing in this totally audult led series of interactions? Could we also ask for clarification on the staging of the phases in letters and sounds? Any ideas on how we could make a formal enquiry on behalf of the forum?? great idea. and yes what on earth have they been doing in the first two terms if they 'enjoy' this sort of boring activity? i am so glad i am not a child in that class!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I watched that video clip yesterday and , like many of you, I could n't believe it was a nursery class. There is no way any of our children could read words and write sentences. On all courses we are reminded to concentrate on phase 1 Letters and Sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 When i watched it i was thinking those children actually look and sound older than the children who are half way through reception now, more like year 1's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotcat Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 When I watched it I thought there must be a group of children off that day - the ones that happen to have developmental delay, emotional difficulties, behavioural issues ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyfs1966 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 .....and the EAL children, and the one with the permanently green trail nose (we always have at least 1 every session), the one with the parent who wants/needs to stay all session, the one who only wants to play with the Thomas train, the one who is constantly demanding to the loo (until they really need to go, when they just pee wherever they are!), .....need I go on? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) I am sure I read somewhere on the Ofsted site that children enetering reception should be on average secure at 30-50 months. These children were clearly at ELG...what have I missed??? Also, I was told that letters and sound at nursery should really be phase1. These children were phases 3 and 4! Now i am all for pushing on the most able, but there's pushing on and pushing on!!!! I have read or was told something similar. Essentially if your children are moving up secure in 30-50 months then we as a setting have done a good job! last year I had loads of parents panicked because their children could not write their name, short words/sentences and weren't reading. We told them that they have till the end of reception for many of the skills and tasks they were worried about! All these children (and I have checked) are now writing, reading and doing fantastic because they had the proper foundation at the proper time and were allowed to develop at their own pace!!!!! Am I cynical or could this be a 'plant' session by the government? those children did look way older than pre-school age and like others have said where are the ones that don't 'fit the mould' where are the children trying to settle in for the first time, the ones who are creative learners, physical learners, the ones with SEN etc... or like many of my current cohort the ones who are just quite young for their age and don't have any boundaries at home, or any social interaction with children their own age??? they must live in a very unique area is all I can say, maybe you have to pass an exam before you are allowed to go to that pre-school like an early version of the 11+!!! I was seriously considering writing to some one about it MP maybe?? I just feel strongly that this is wrong. I appreciate that we cant necessarily repeat the experiences of Norway or Sweden (I remember seeing a video clip of a British man who was married and teaching in Sweden and he said that the national ethos supports that way of education where ours does not so it would not work as a complete transfer) but surely we are going too far in the other direction. Then again I wonder if as a nation we want to. How many of us are getting increasing numbers of pushy parents, or parents that are told this is normal and because they want what is best for their children feel pushing for this kind of learning is how to get it!! I had a parent in this week who told me her daughter was desperate to learn to read and could recognise small words such as at, in, the etc... well this little one showed no interest, has no phonic knowledge and basically when it came down to it could not read those words! we were a little cynical and thought well dad is a teacher for gifted and talented children and based on other conversations we have had we had to wonder who was pushing who??? I could imagine him loving that video!!!! Edited February 2, 2013 by Johanna1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 My Ofsted inspector/Literacy expert friend said this is NOT what is expected. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyfs1966 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 My Ofsted inspector/Literacy expert friend said this is NOT what is expected. So why then is it on the ofsted site as an example of outstanding practice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Well clearly there are different teams/groups etc making up the organisation. But she said they are told when she trained not to expect phase 2 until early reception - however that does not mean that children who were ready would be held back of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 My Ofsted inspector/Literacy expert friend said this is NOT what is expected. Phew! :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopscotch Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 there is plenty of time for formal learning in school - my 6 year old son still finds the act of writing quite difficult and he has good fine motor skills. He loves reading and has a great imagination and vocab so when he is ready to write I know his stories will be great. Why do we push them so young? We have been doing lots of storytelling activities at our mixed aged pre school and last week a little boy made a story up that lasted nearly 20 minutes. The adult who'd had the privilege of being close by and able to enjoy his story telling was so excited and moved by it. If we'd encouraged him to write it that rich language and magic would have been lost! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 i saw this as part of a twighlight training, it was a mix of reception teachers, nursery and pvi's . When this was shown there was silence followed by a sharp intake of breath and then a fit of giggles......says it all i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mukerjee1 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Lets get our phonics fingers out to sound out... 'Ugh!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I did wonder what you were going to do with the 'phonic finger' there mukerjee1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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