School Readiness? - Mr Gove

[Marion]

Education Secretary Michael Gove has stressed the Government's intention to take radical action 'to tackle the scandal of our educational underclass', talking of the need to ensure 'school readiness' for children who arrive in reception class 'unable to form letters or even hold a pencil'.

 

http://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/bulleti...seryWorldUpdate

[Rea]

Good grief!

[Fredbear]

Words fail me.

[Marion]

The full speech is here

[eyfs1966]

i'm still laughing.......in a sort of manic way!!

[Panders]

Glald I'm not the only one to have an OMG reaction! It makes me want to cry.

[Stargrower]

How very, very sad...

Beehive

[Cait]

So........ maybe we should be looking at the Scandinavian system where children start later anyway, then it wouldn't be such a problem

[Guest tinkerbell]

It doesn't make me cry it actually made me laugh.It has just confirmed what I have suspected for a long time ,the government is made up of incompetents who speak a lot of twaddle.

[millhill]

So........ maybe we should be looking at the Scandinavian system where children start later anyway, then it wouldn't be such a problem

 

I'm thinking of sending him this video that we discussed on another post:

 

http://www.teachfind.com/teachers-tv/sweden-early-years

 

Put your money where you mouth is Gove .......lower class sizes and increase adult-child ratios, then you will see improvements in literacy and behaviour.

[Stargrower]

Not just Scandinavia Cait, but just about the rest of the world begins formal education a good deal later than we do. If children are starting school here younger and younger and 'results' are getting poorer and poorer, surely there must be a message in that!!

Beehive

[Cait]

Not just Scandinavia Cait, but just about the rest of the world begins formal education a good deal later than we do. If children are starting school here younger and younger and 'results' are getting poorer and poorer, surely there must be a message in that!!

Beehive

 

Yup I totally agree with you. There has to be a correlation

[Marion]

Interestingly I was talking to someone about different education systems. She had actually been talking to heads who had taught in a variety of European countries and who believed that the UK system is by far the most "gentle" on the children by teaching them the basics slowly over a long period of time in contrast to other systems where pre school has no formal learning but then becomes very intensive. It was something I hadn't considered given the criticism of the UK system

[Cait]

That's an interesting perspective Marion. I'd not thought of it like that.

 

It sounds as though Gove wants it to be less gentle though, doesn't it

[Marion]

That's an interesting perspective Marion. I'd not thought of it like that.

 

It sounds as though Gove wants it to be less gentle though, doesn't it

 

 

He seems to have lost sight of the fact that statutory school age is 5 not 3 year olds in nursery!

[HappyMaz]

We had a German family a while ago whose children went to the most fabulous Forest shool kindergarten and when I said how lovely it was that their children would start school much later than ours, mum said that it wasn't quite so idyllic as I imagined. She said children there are put under real pressure to 'crack on' the moment they got to school. She said the transition from a play-based approach to a pen-and-pencil-sit-at-desks approach was quite distressing for children, and she envied our children's transition from nursery to school which she saw as much less pressured.

[Panders]

I can understand that, a neice and nephew of mine live in Switzerland and similarly they found the change quite abrupt. Certainly the transition from one to another could have been better handled in their last year in kindergarten.

[Buttercup]

I noticed in the new proposed EYFS it kept talking about school rediness how said that they think our role in pre-school is to get children ready for school.

 

buttercup

[millhill]

Well, if our education system has got it right (introducing formal learning earlier) why do we not do as well as those who start formal schooling later?

 

Here's some interesting facts:

 

KEY FEATURES OF THE FINNISH EDUCATION SYSTEM

 

All teachers must have a master's degree before they start teaching.

 

Compulsory schooling starts at seven with voluntary play-based kindergarten for younger children.

 

No national testing, inspections or school league tables. The government looks at an 8 to 10 per cent sample of pupils' work to check on performance.

 

Pupils transfer to either an academic or a vocational school at the age of 16 after nine years of compulsory schooling.

 

No university fees for home or EU students. Pilot of fees for overseas students from outside the EU.

 

KEY FEATURES OF THE ENGLISH SYSTEM

 

Teaching is an all-graduate profession but there are moves to allow free schools to employ unqualified teachers.

 

Compulsory schooling starts at five.

 

National tests for 11-year-olds with school league tables based on the results.

 

Secondary-school league tables are based on GCSE and A-level results, plus absence rates.

 

Students face fees of up to £3,000 a year in English universities – going up to a maximum of £9,000 in September 2012. Non-EU students can be charged full-cost annual fees of £28,000

 

Here's the full article: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/educatio...ld-2289083.html

.....according to the article, Gove supposedly said he wants to go down the Finnish path........ in what way has he done this exactly?

[Marion]

Well, if our education system has got it right (introducing formal learning earlier) why do we not do as well as those who start formal schooling later?

 

Here's some interesting facts:

 

KEY FEATURES OF THE FINNISH EDUCATION SYSTEM

 

All teachers must have a master's degree before they start teaching.

 

Compulsory schooling starts at seven with voluntary play-based kindergarten for younger children.

 

No national testing, inspections or school league tables. The government looks at an 8 to 10 per cent sample of pupils' work to check on performance.

 

Pupils transfer to either an academic or a vocational school at the age of 16 after nine years of compulsory schooling.

 

No university fees for home or EU students. Pilot of fees for overseas students from outside the EU.

 

KEY FEATURES OF THE ENGLISH SYSTEM

 

Teaching is an all-graduate profession but there are moves to allow free schools to employ unqualified teachers.

 

Compulsory schooling starts at five.

 

National tests for 11-year-olds with school league tables based on the results.

 

Secondary-school league tables are based on GCSE and A-level results, plus absence rates.

 

Students face fees of up to £3,000 a year in English universities – going up to a maximum of £9,000 in September 2012. Non-EU students can be charged full-cost annual fees of £28,000

 

Here's the full article: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/educatio...ld-2289083.html

.....according to the article, Gove supposedly said he wants to go down the Finnish path........ in what way has he done this exactly?

 

 

Another interesting feature of the Finnish system is that it isn't quite as successful as it appears ... in their returns they exclude pupils with dyslexia dyscalcula and EAL so not a fair comparison

http://www.comenius-individual-support.eu/..._digest%202.pdf

 

The Finns have already said their model won't work here because the government won't allow schools to operate on a profit system

[millhill]

It appears that some countries defined additional criteria: Denmark, Finland, Ireland, Poland, and Spain excluded students with dyslexia; Denmark also students with dyscalculia; Luxembourg recently immigrated students.

 

Well if the research is so flawed, what is the point of the comparisons? Is the PISA research the only way to compare country's literacy levels?

There is a lot of research out there which shows that starting formal schooling earlier has no benefit to a child's education in the long run.

[Marion]

It appears that some countries defined additional criteria: Denmark, Finland, Ireland, Poland, and Spain excluded students with dyslexia; Denmark also students with dyscalculia; Luxembourg recently immigrated students.

 

Well if the research is so flawed, what is the point of the comparisons? Is the PISA research the only way to compare country's literacy levels?

There is a lot of research out there which shows that starting formal schooling earlier has no benefit to a child's education in the long run.

 

I don't think the full facts make such good headlines ...

 

The UNESCO data puts the UK adult literacy at the same level as Denmark, Finland, Sweden and Norway at 99

Edited September 2, 2011 by Marion

[Guest]

I choked on my drink when I read it! What a complete he is! I am certainly NOT about to start teaching my Nursery children letter formation when they first need to learn how to play and live alongside each other! Not forgetting the few that will need toilet training, those with low confidence and/or poor speaking and listening skills...maybe we should invite him to visit all our settings!!!

[millhill]

The UNESCO data puts the UK adult literacy at the same level as Denmark, Finland, Sweden and Norway at 99

 

Which goes to prove that starting formal schooling earlier does not raise literacy levels above those who start later. So why bother?

[Marion]

Which goes to prove that starting formal schooling earlier does not raise literacy levels above those who start later. So why bother?

 

As has already been pointed out the difference is that once children start school in many European countries it becomes very intensive right away so effectively cramming in all that gentle introduction into a single year.

[millhill]

I think there are lots of teachers who find they have to cram a lot into the reception year to get 4-5 year olds achieving these goals

• read a range of familiar and common words and simple sentences independently;
  
• write their own names and other things such as labels and captions and begin to form simple sentences, sometimes using punctuation;
  
• use their phonic knowledge to write simple regular words and make phonetically plausible attempts at more complex words;
  

[Marion]

I think there are lots of teachers who find they have to cram a lot into the reception year to get 4-5 year olds achieving these goals

• read a range of familiar and common words and simple sentences independently;
  
• write their own names and other things such as labels and captions and begin to form simple sentences, sometimes using punctuation;
  
• use their phonic knowledge to write simple regular words and make phonetically plausible attempts at more complex words;
  

 

 

I think it would be harder to prevent an inquisitive 5 year old from meeting the criteria to achieve the first 4 goals you've listed to be honest the phonics goals would require some direct input .... but taught very differently

Edited September 2, 2011 by Marion

[Rea]

Are there any statistics showing the levels of literacy and numeracy among the population now as to 30/40 years ago? My first experience of 'schooling' in any form was walking into my first class at the age of 5, being given a doll and a hanky and told to 'bath the baby', while the teacher grabbed a boy called David, dragged him back into the class and locked the door to stop another attempt at escape.

Not ideal, but I'm sure all my peers can read and write, so I just wondered what the statistics are.

[Marion]

Levels of literacy have fluctuated only slightly since the 1940s I'm not sure about numeracy levels.

 

http://www.leeds.ac.uk/educol/documents/000000650.htm

 

http://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp

[url=http://www.14to19.co.uk/2010/05/20-leave-school-functionally-illiterate-and-innumerate/]http://www.14to19.co.uk/2010/05/20-leave-school-functionally-illiterate-and-innumerate/[/ur

[Rea]

Its a bit much to read fully this time of night, but I wonder of ministers look at research like this?

Its very interesting to see no change or just slight rise throughout the years, maybe it reflects more EAL children in the schools?

 

Is this a case of needing a complete change of tack on reading, leaving the box and trying something completely new instead of just rejigging everything thats gone before?