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Pay For Key Person Time


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Hi

I'm sure i have seen on here somewhere a discussion on how managers pay their staff for keyworker time. We are having a big debate over this at the moment as some people have 4 children while others have 10. We pay for half an hour a week, this system isnt working at the moment, i'm looking to change it but just not sure how at the moment.. Do you pay so much per child, how do others organise this?

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Hi,

 

We are paid £10 per child per term.....our books are checked to see that all relevent paperwork /learning journies are completed.. some staff only have 2 childrens other have 7, and several have 12. This works well as staff keep on top of their paperwork as they know their payment is due and books will be checked/viewed.

 

Oakley40

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Teachers get 10% of their teaching time as non-contact. This could be a basis for comparison. I think that the more time, the more productive. I worked in a day nursery where staff got (in theory) 1 hour per week to compile observations, make assessments, plan for net week's activities, and then file paperwork, print pictures etc etc etc. This just wasn't enough to produce anything of quality, and led to ahuge draw of unfiled paperwork.

 

I don't think work should be done at home - firstly because I have a huge problem with staff doing unpaid work (woudl you let them go home an hour early and be paid for it? So why do they have to do an etra hour unpaid) and also because of confidentiality issues - you don't know who will have access to the folders, either in their home or if they left their bag on the bus etc.

 

Payment by results might be good, as long as it is clear what it required.

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I'm in preschool and get 2 hours per week key person time........done at home. When we do children's reports we get paid 1 hour per report for whatever amount of children we have. I currently have 12 children and this will go up to 14 after Easter.

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ok...so am I the one that gets the worst deal?.......1 hour per half term???!! This is for all staff no matter how many they have. I work every day and so have the most at 11 but then I am more experienced than others so perhaps i do them quicker than those that have 4???

 

We also have to do planning for one week per term individually and dont get paid for this. Plus we take our folders home...I wouldnt get them done otherwise as nowhere ie office space to do them and I am working with the children for all the hours the setting is open.

 

Mind you last setting didnt pay for files at all...or going on training...

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Guest Spiral

Great thread,

 

this is something we are reviewing too. Previously each staff member was paid 10 mins extra pay per key child per week - that works out at an hour for 6 key children and went well until someone suggested we work it differently.

 

The suggestion has been that we should get staff cover arranged so that they can work on-site. It's a difficult one as a couple of staff are very pro and a couple are very against. It's a hugely personal thing-I used to do mine in complete silence at home as I could really concentrate, but what's right for me may not be right for others.

 

I think it should certainly be discussed as a team, but it is really hard to please everyone.

 

Spiral

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A couple of may staff like to do it together, so they can bounce ideas about - and that can make it tricky. I pay an hour a week and they choose to stay back after their morning session one day when they have an afternoon off, and work together in the other room

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ok i am a really bad boss xD ...i dont pay anything ! its agreed as part of their job description and there is no room to do it on site, so has to be done in own time at home.

all of us have 8/9 or 10 children and nearly everyone has a child with an additional need in that grouping too(ok ...runs to hide...bad girl...bad girl :o )

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Ok finleysmaid can i hide with you then as we don't pay either. But am watching this post with interest.

We presently rota in a session per half-term for all staff whilst at work, but it is done in the room and quite frankly it doesn't work.

So i am keen to explore other options with a view to make changes if possible.

:oxD

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Guest Spiral

Beware, beware those of you who don't pay!

 

We didn't pay our staff for their key work and now they want more and more! I really do believe that I'm the only one who does the voluntary stuff . . and I frequently get paid less than the others!

 

Dedication shows in time spent helping out for free sometimes, spiral x

Edited by Spiral
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Hi all, we have just reviewed this. For years we were not paid any additional time for paper work etc, updating childrens files and accepted that this was part of the job.

 

We now find ourselves with 15 children per key person group x 4 with approx 10 per group leaving to go to school this year, I know that you all realise what a huge job this is to keep files/folders updated so I have asked our committee if we can be paid 1 extra hour per week and they have agreed (yay)

 

Some key persons will take less time and some will take longer, a hard part of an already exhausting job.

 

Really keen to find out how many key children others have in their groups and if it is paid or not.

 

thanks all

Debbie

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Guest Spiral

Hi Debster,

 

thats exactly why we worked it out at 10 mins per key child - some have three children and some have eight or nine, so paying by the child makes it fairer.

 

Hope that helps,

Spiral

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We have a member of bank staff in every thursday morning. This allows each of us to have a full session(3hrs) once a month to keep up to date with paperwork. We have an average of 15 key children each.

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Hi all

 

we didn't used to get paid for key work for ages and have to take the paperwork home and complete in our own time. I fought for payment for the staff feeling that it was important to get paid for what you do but knew that as a charity we would not get the full amount but something would hopefully show respect and consideration. Now we pay 1/2 hour per key work child however, there is now dissatisfaction because I am frequently told it take longer than 1/2 an hour :o

 

we are now wondering if we should have an extra amount that is not set out per child as this seems to still be causing problems just different ones.

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Wow, i'm soooo confused now!!! we pay half an hour a week but staff are unhappy as some staff have 4 children while others have 12 as they work more sessions, staff feel its unfair and a fairer system needs to be put in place but what that is i'm not sure, so much per child seems to be fairer but how much? Now that is the question? I do like the idea of paying extra when reports need to be written though!!!!

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Hi

I have some staff with 10 children and they are paid 4 hours a month, staff who have fewer children (4/5) are paid 2 hours per month, I prefer them to stay after session and complete the paperwork although I appreciate that sometimes this doesn't always work.

 

Kris

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We pay 15 minutes a week per child/I have 22 key children! It takes me 15 minutes to get my file out and sort out the obs and photos I have....one file takes what it takes....I probably work at least 6 hours a week I am not paid for....same old.. :oxD

 

I have two members of staff who dont have key children as they made such a fuss about doing the files and their job is to collect focus observations or next steps of learning intentions as directed by the rest of the keyworkers...it works quite well... :( We draw up next steps for the whole team to observe and then manage our individual planning ourselves...we are constantly tweaking and evolving the system...sometimes things work and sometimes we need to change it ...

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Very interesting ... Our system is in a muddle and I'm looking to sort it out and prorata it according to hours worked, but I was forgetting that two people may work similar numbers of hours but one could have double the number of keychildren. Our muddle is that originally we paid staff a good hourly rate which was supposed to cover paperwork responsibilities too. We also paid a lump sum for planning and reports. But that wasn't fair because some had more keychildren than others. We then added some non-contact time too, but this is never enough because although some people work efficiently, others take a long time to write up, and it made everyone think that their hourly rate was just for work with the children and then the few hours non-contact were the only hours paid for out of hours - when actually it should be a salary that pays for the 'job' as whole, within reason (we also pay for mandatory training and staff training days if it on a day off). It is all very confusing and non-transparent but it is impossible to pay by minutes per child because a) this changes throughout the year and :o for some people it is enough and for others it isn't, and everyone starts counting minutes rather than just getting on with what they need to be doing. The problem is there just isn't enough money in early years to pay people the salaries they deserve and yet more and more needs doing ...

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Oh my goodness, I thought our key groups were as high as they get!

 

We all have 15 per group, so we all get paid 1 hour extra per week

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ok i am a really bad boss xD ...i dont pay anything ! its agreed as part of their job description and there is no room to do it on site, so has to be done in own time at home.

all of us have 8/9 or 10 children and nearly everyone has a child with an additional need in that grouping too(ok ...runs to hide...bad girl...bad girl :o )

 

I don't pay extra HOWEVER I do let staff go off site for their children's assemlies, doctors appointments, children's dentist or any other comitments. We are a working team and aid each other. Yes they do work at home but also know there is not a huge pot of money to cover additional payments.

 

I may need to review this but would really expect a good quality if I am payiny extra. Meany manager.

Sue

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We don't pay extra either but they are on a rota for an hour a week each, which should be enough if they kept on top of it. This however doesn't always happen, especially with staff illnesses so we've needed everyone on ratio.

 

I was very kind last week :o and gave them all the option of having half a day paid as I was able to cover ratios, so the books are all ready to go out next week. Some staff didn't need it as they were all up to date.

 

Like Bigsue, staff are allowed time off for assemblies etc, they are also paid very well and they do know it's part of the job. Unfortunately with the funding rates not going up, having to pay staff when they attend training etc means there is no way I can afford to pay any out of hours time.

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In our setting, all key persons have most of one session a week, around 2.5 hours to update their files and plan. This works quite well, although there will always be people who say it's not enough. My answer is usually that they are doing too much, and to look at quality not quantity. The other thing to bare in mind is that learning journals should be shared with children, so some of the 'sticking in' etc could be done with your key children while you are working with them, leaving less of this task to do during the non-contact time.

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I used to pay staff two extra weeks pay per term (39 weeks worked plus 6weeks extra plus holiday pay per year) for completing files on children - observations and collation of photographs and antecdotes. you think great I have this extra pot I will do all the work she throws at me ha ha ha. I spend my whole year chasing for files etc. Mug I thought.

 

This year I stopped this, staff observe children during the session - I plan out areas of development and monitor through observation which everyone does - two members of staff collate the evidence another two members add them to folders and we plan next steps together. I have deducted the additional 6 weeks pay and take out staff at the end of each term.

 

It is working so far.

call me mean but if I was doing all the work !!!!!!!!

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