Quite Random

[Jester]

A few years ago a student I worked with said that when singing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star you must NEVER form forefinger and thumb from each hand in a diamond shape because in sign language it is signing for er lady bits she said her college tutor had told her this and they were told never to do it.

 

I took my little one to a baby group last week where we sang songs at the end and when doing twinkle twinkle the surestart workers both looked at each other and then did alternative signs for diamond which makes me wonder whether what this student said was in fact true.

 

Can anyone shed any light on this?

[Rea]

Gosh, no! Hope its not true!!

 

 

 

We had a girl who called her bits a fairy, awkward moments when making christmas decorations

[Cait]

We've had a 'fairy' girl too!

 

Not sure about the 'diamond' shape though ....

[finleysmaid]

now i'm fascinated! what was their alternative sign? I have always been taught diamond is hand open(sparkle/twinkle) then diamond shape with finger and thumb pointing towards hand for 'in' ......(ssshhh don't tell anyone but i know quite a few rude makaton signs- some are very similar to other signs )

[Jester]

Gosh, no! Hope its not true!!

 

 

 

We had a girl who called her bits a fairy, awkward moments when making christmas decorations

 

I can imagine!

 

 

now i'm fascinated! what was their alternative sign? I have always been taught diamond is hand open(sparkle/twinkle) then diamond shape with finger and thumb pointing towards hand for 'in' ......(ssshhh don't tell anyone but i know quite a few rude makaton signs- some are very similar to other signs )

 

I wonder if that what she mean then, that it was a makaton sign not BSL?

The alternative signs were hand outstretched moving outward with finger spalyed and the other was the diamond but wider, so hands not meeting if that makes sense?

Edited May 17, 2010 by Jester

[Cait]

Ooh I need to know now!!!!

[Rea]

I've just googled, american sign language shows star as both index fingers together alternatively pointing ceiling, like rubbing together.

[Marion]

We had a boy who giggled every time the nursery teacher sang little rabbit foo foo turned out that foo foo was his mum's name for his sister's "bits"

[Jester]

maybe it will remain forver a mystery then?

Rea, thanks for that

[finleysmaid]

actually you may be right you dont bring the fingers together until they come back to your flat palm (for the in bit) so maybe the hole bit is the $%3&^!!!!! american sign language a whole different thing there are some very odd ones there

[Jester]

actually you may be right you dont bring the fingers together until they come back to your flat palm (for the in bit) so maybe the hole bit is the $%3&^!!!!! american sign language a whole different thing there are some very odd ones there

 

I'm confused now? flat palm?

[finleysmaid]

okay will try to explain......(brain cell ticks slowly.....) for diamond in twinkle twinkle the words 'like a diamond in the sky' are accompanied by the signs 'diamond' 'in' and 'sky'. so diamond is hand open (like showing five fingers) then put fore finger and thumb towards each other, as if you were going to pick up something from a flat palm on your other hand...this is the' in 'bit - then sky is two hands sweeping over your head - a bit like a rainbow over your head..

 

trying to explain this on here is like that game when you have to describe something without saying it

[Guest]

It is true, honest! we were told by a fluent bsl user that we should draw the shape of the diamond to avoid embarassment and offence

[Cait]

So making an inverse kite shape by putting thumb tips together downwards and index finger tips together upwards is no longer acceptable? That's the 'rude' shape?

[finleysmaid]

well if this is the case i must have upset a lot of people :wacko: i will go and ask my portage worker and see what she says....

[trekker]

in sign language it is signing for er lady bits

Yep this is what we were told at signing course - so instantly stopped doing it and changed to drawing a large diamong shape in the air with index fingers instead.

[finleysmaid]

just thinking i have performed this (!) in front of hundreds including lots of sen specialists and no-one has ever mentioned it - they have picked us up on signing prostitute instead of black! oohhppss

[mps09]

Well I just put it into google and it came up with this.....

 

http://commtechlab.msu.edu/sites/aslweb/browser.htm

 

search under v and you get a picture of the sign... although it is American Sign Language

 

and it's probably deliberately upside down so we don't get confused when asking small children to make a diamond shape with their fingers

 

What fun!

[Cait]

so are we ok to put our forefingertips together and then draw a diamond shape? or does that mean something else entirely!?!

[finleysmaid]

ah i have just had a revelation and also realised i made an error yesterday- not the first or last time!! you only use one hand for the diamond shape .....so open your hand,fingers spread. on the right hand (like when counting five)take the thumb and first finger on the right hand and make a small diamond shape with these two fingers and then point them down to an open palm on the left hand(so it looks like your trying to pick up something small) ....this is the sign for diamond!

'in' is putting your right hand flat palm down into a 'snapping' hand on the left.

i have done makaton for so long i hadn't remembered using two hands for the diamond shape

hope this makes sense...i'll have to get the children to make a video!!!

[Cait]

ok confused now (not hard) so, we use the two thumbs and index fingers to make the diamond - so is that ok?

[finleysmaid]

this could go on forever!!!! only use ONE hand to make the diamond with your right thumb and right first finger(yes it will look more like a circle!!!)like when you are teaching a child froggy fingers for holding a pencil..... Edited May 18, 2010 by finleysmaid

[Cait]

this could go on forever!!!! only use ONE hand to make the diamond with your right thumb and right first finger(yes it will look more like a circle!!!)like when you are teaching a child froggy fingers for holding a pencil.....

 

 

right - so it's the two-handed one that's wrong. I think we'll just draw a diamond in the air

[Rea]

right - so it's the two-handed one that's wrong. I think we'll just draw a diamond in the air

 

 

I'm just never going to sing it again!!

[Cait]

I'm just never going to sing it again!!

 

or do one of the other verses instead!

[Marion]

I'm just never going to sing it again!!

 

 

The sign seems to be with fingers pointing down ...wonder if fingers pointing up means the same???

[Guest]

Think I'm just going to bury my head in the sand on this one and apologise profusely if I offend anyone! I got totally lost some posts back!

[Guest]

I have level 2 signing in Somerset total communications and yes putting forefingers and thumps together is the sign for vagina, we use our for fingers to draw a diamond in the air LOL this thread is cracking me up, but on a serious note, I used to have a little girl in pre school who was born without a voicebox and yes she could understand all the signs and would have found twinkle twinkle little star quite amusing done the traditional way!!

[JacquieL]

It seems to me that diamond shape is a diamond shape, 'like a diamond in the sky' and if we sing a song and make that shape demonstrating with our hands to our young children, it is just representing a shape to them. They are hardly likely to think it represents anything else, and if they do that is a very worrying issue. I shall continue to to do what I have done for 40 odd years without anyone complaining that is is somehow sexually inappropriate.

[HappyMaz]

I shall continue to to do what I have done for 40 odd years without anyone complaining that is is somehow sexually inappropriate.

Me too, although I will smile inwardly when I do it, remembering this conversation. Looking at the video it appears that the sign we make for diamond is only likely to offend if done the other way up!

 

Maz