Why In This Area And Not In Another?

[HappyMaz]

Sorry if I have caused any inconvenience.

Sometimes the most innocuous questions can spark the biggest debate, SmileyPR so you shouldn't feel the need to apologise for being the catalyst for this one. I was just impressed at the level of detail you had looked at in order to ask the question in the first place!

 

Maz

[sunnyday]

Sometimes the most innocuous questions can spark the biggest debate, SmileyPR so you shouldn't feel the need to apologise for being the catalyst for this one. I was just impressed at the level of detail you had looked at in order to ask the question in the first place!

 

Maz

Absolutely!

[sunnyday]

Hope so. Otherwise I would miss out on the excellent advice and opinions given by members who are not only more qualified and more knowledgeable than me, but also those whose job role involves supporting groups to come to terms with what the EYFS means in practice, undertaking profile moderation etc.

 

Thanks for helping me with my learning journey, chaps - and what a great question from SmileyPR to start it all off!

 

Maz

Me again!

 

Just to say - I really like to hear from everyone - not just those more qualified than me - it can be reassuring to hear that you are not the only one who has maybe 'missed or misunderstood' something!

 

Sunnyday

[SmileyPR]

Well, the thing is that I work at an international school in Europe and, until now, we have been using the CG for the FS because our Head Deputy did not want to take the risk of starting the EYFS and that this one would not last long. Take for example the fact that Playing with Sounds was soon followed up by Letters & Sounds. Many book editor companies started to create phonics books based on the order taught in Playing with Sounds and then L&S came with another one.

 

Our Kindergarten team met recently and considered it would be time to make the change to the EYFS since the previous curriculum is dated 9 years. So, when updating the progress tracker that I had created last year to modify it to the EYFS, I noticed this statement and considered it out of place. I would not like to present something to my team that I consider could be otherwise. Maybe our school would decide to place it however we want, since we are not bonded to the UK, but I did not want to make any modifications to such an important tool of reference. I have been a teacher for nearly 20 years and one has that gut feeling when things could be certain way, yet open to a lot of learning. That is why I came back to the forum to find guidance and those who have worked with the EYFS during this 1st year. You have put it into practice and your advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

That is where the question could come? Has it been worth it to make the change and what advantages/disadvantages have you found.

 

I only want the best for our children in our school :-)

[HappyMaz]

I only want the best for our children in our school :-)

Ah it makes sense now! We have no option really but to work with the document as it is but since you are not using it as a statutory requirement, I don't see why you shouldn't move the statement if you feel it makes more sense to put it elsewhere. I guess the question is whether it is less confusing to staff to move it to where you feel it is more appropriate, or if any of you are likely to come to the UK and have to use the EYFS documentation, and thus be more confused by it being where the DCSF put it originally.

 

Does that make sense or am I just confused?

 

Maz

[SmileyPR]

No, Maz, that is one of my concerns. Well, not that any of the others would go to the UK, because they are from here. My concern comes more on the possibility of receiving families from the UK, even though I don't know if parents know the specific details of each Developmental Matters statement or they pay more attention to the 6 areas in general.

[HappyMaz]

I don't know if parents know the specific details of each Developmental Matters statement or they pay more attention to the 6 areas in general.

My personal view is that they probably wouldn't notice! And in any case, I'm sure you could put forward a very convincing argument as to why you have moved it.

 

However I must admit I would probably opt to leave it where it is!

 

Maz

[catma]

Ok Catma, I'll consider my knuckles well and truly rapped for daring to suggest that some of the stepping stones could be worded a little better or placed in more sensible places.

 

I'll think twice before expressing an opinion on them in future

 

Understanding child development is a very important thing to me. I work frequently with teachers who have no or little child development ITT or understanding and who struggle to make sense of what they think they should do vs what children will do anyway. Therefore I do have a higher level of expectation with professionals who have studied and trained for a role in early years work that includes a good knowledge of how young children develop. That was and is the basis of my argument and I make no apology for it whatsoever.

 

On something completely different:

I thought this forum was an exceedingly tolerant and open kind of place. One in which different views are enabled. I am always very careful to check what I write as I am very aware that what is said can look VERY different when it is written. I assume therefore that there is a level of self moderation in others that rises above petty commentary and personal attack. Understanding that people have different views is indeed one of our ELGs

.

It was an interesting question and one that I was just about to post in saying how a simple query can open up such deep and interesting debate. I was reading through the updates when I came upon the above personalized and scathing* comment.

 

I feel very hurt by this despite the attempts of others to mitigate it. For which I thank them.

 

 

Cx

 

Yes well after a trip to the dentist I've rescinded on *vituperative which was the original text.

Edited May 27, 2009 by catma

[sunnyday]

Oh Catma

 

Cait can, of course, speak for herself, but I have to say that her post is not, in my opinion 'vituperative' (and yes I had to look that one up in the dictionary)!!!

 

It is easy to feel 'wounded' I know - but don't - 'unruffle' (hey I just invented a new word!) your feathers and have a good day.

 

Sunnyday

[Guest]

Hi

Well as one that is relatively new to the trade id like to say that I find some of the statements confusing too. I think I am fairly intelligent but I too wish they would make things seem more easy to understand. I have done my training in child development and have some good books to refer too. Realised I am also quite inexperienced though. Mind you my supervisor is struggling sometimes also. Sometimes I find mysef doing good post it obs on development and then strugge to find anything in the book in the area that seems to correspond to what I have observed. I still write it down though! I take it that they cant cover everything I am going to observe.

 

However, our parents are supposed to be involved in completing these records also as we are sharing info etc so how can they be expected to understand them too when they take them home?

[Possum]

You make a good point, Marley. Some of the statements can be ambiguous, and different people's interpretation of them can be quite wide-ranging, but the booklet gives a bit of description about them and what we need to be doing next, and sometimes that helps explain them a bit better.

 

There are a couple of repetitive ones which can trip me up if I date one and not the other at the same time!

 

We've been using them for a long time now, they are broadly similar to the old 'Desirable Learning Outcomes' so we've had plenty of time to get used to them. I did hope that the Goals at the end of the Handwriting stage would be re-written slightly, but I can understand why they won't do it; a lot of children can write simple sentences by the end of the Foundation Stage, but I still consider that it shouldn't be a stated 'Goal'.

[Guest]

I've caught onto this thread a bit late and am very intrigued.

I agree that knowledge of child development is key to promoting the EYFS and am often shocked at how little child development features in CPD - childminders, for example, do not have child development training during the registration process!!??!!

I think I have an understanding of the development matters points yet I may be interpreting them differently to others.

I also struggle with/have issues with the age bands that some of the points fall in - Cait gives a good example of exploring malleable materials falling within the 40-60mth age range.

I often seem to have problems with KUW Place - there is only one point for 22-36mths and it's about creative play. so when discovering and exploring outdoors they either have to say in the 16-26mths range when really they've moved on or move up to the 30-50mths and stay there for ages so it looks like their not moving on.

I feel that I would like more opportunities to discuss/moderate development matters points otherwise it seems like an awful lot of hard work for nothing if we are interpreting them differently

[Upsy Daisy]

I feel that I would like more opportunities to discuss/moderate development matters points otherwise it seems like an awful lot of hard work for nothing if we are interpreting them differently

 

It depends on how you view the document. I see it as a guide for me to use when offering activities to promote learning and development. I use it to help me paint an overall picture of the child along with my own knowledge and experience. I don't feel the need to tick every box as long as I feel the child is fulfilling his or her potential.

[Rea]

I've caught onto this thread a bit late and am very intrigued.

I agree that knowledge of child development is key to promoting the EYFS and am often shocked at how little child development features in CPD - childminders, for example, do not have child development training during the registration process!!??!!

I think I have an understanding of the development matters points yet I may be interpreting them differently to others.

I also struggle with/have issues with the age bands that some of the points fall in - Cait gives a good example of exploring malleable materials falling within the 40-60mth age range.

I often seem to have problems with KUW Place - there is only one point for 22-36mths and it's about creative play. so when discovering and exploring outdoors they either have to say in the 16-26mths range when really they've moved on or move up to the 30-50mths and stay there for ages so it looks like their not moving on.

I feel that I would like more opportunities to discuss/moderate development matters points otherwise it seems like an awful lot of hard work for nothing if we are interpreting them differently

 

Its not only childminders who dont have child development training dcn. I know some NVQ3's who are sorely lacking in the knowledge they need to effectively use the EYFS, sadly they dont even know what they should know so cant in most instances ask for advice about it.

[HappyMaz]

I don't feel the need to tick every box as long as I feel the child is fulfilling his or her potential.

Quite so, Alison. I feel a bit uncomfortable also with the use of the word 'step' to describe the development matters statements, and try to avoid using this with our staff. I worry that less experienced/knowledgeable practitioners will see them as steps that children have to master before moving on to the next one. It is all too easy to get hung up with the need to provide evidence that a child has met each statement - even though the child may well be operating at a higher level. As you say, the important thing is that the child is making progress.

 

Maz

[Upsy Daisy]

Exactly Maz - to me it's one tool (of many) which helps me to present a balanced curriculum, not a recipe for child development.

[Guest]

It depends on how you view the document. I see it as a guide for me to use when offering activities to promote learning and development. I use it to help me paint an overall picture of the child along with my own knowledge and experience. I don't feel the need to tick every box as long as I feel the child is fulfilling his or her potential.

 

not sure that I did say I was using it as a ticklist or feel that children need to have a tick in every box.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Guest

[Upsy Daisy]

Gosh - this is an emotive subject!

 

Sorry dcn I didn't mean to imply that you did. But I do think there are a lot of people who feel that they need to cover every detail or they aren't doing their job properly. I'm not criticising anyone for how they choose to use this document but I think its a shame that so many people feel pressured to cover every angle in detail. It should help us - not make life more complicated!

[SmileyPR]

In not such a very serious tone...

 

Why should the profile be filled then? Scores at such an early age... and not all the areas are assessed equally.

 

Now seriously...

 

I think that all the people who come here to the forum come with very good intentions, willing to learn from each other, no matter the years of experience nor the level of their training and that is what has made this forum so special to me because it has been the best one where I have felt "in family", with a good atmosphere, where we can share and dialogue about our doubts, expectations, desires, etc.

 

I have a university degree in Early Years + Primary + Special Education and almost 20 years of experience, but I love take advantage of anything that can help me keep updated because I am not a finished person. Each day I learn from others, adults and even my students... and I enjoy it . Don't we all

[Guest]

I think that all the people who come here to the forum come with very good intentions, willing to learn from each other, no matter the years of experience nor the level of their training and that is what has made this forum so special to me because it has been the best one where I have felt "in family", with a good atmosphere, where we can share and dialogue about our doubts, expectations, desires, etc.

 

I have a university degree in Early Years + Primary + Special Education and almost 20 years of experience, but I love take advantage of anything that can help me keep updated because I am not a finished person. Each day I learn from others, adults and even my students... and I enjoy it . Don't we all

Very well said That's exactly how I feel!

[JacquieL]

Why should the profile be filled then? Scores at such an early age... and not all the areas are assessed equally.

 

It's good to hear your perspective on this, from the outside of the UK system. In LA maintained settings the children are tracked against these statements each term from entry at 3, and possibly now from 12 weeks, to monitor progress and measure the success of the curriculum in a particular setting. This information is also used by OFSTED when grading a setting and getting it right puts pressure on the staff. Information is then passed on to the schools that the children will go to, and children are tracked onwards and upwards through their Primary years. It is an enormous amount of work and I think we all have trouble sometimes with the statements and their meaning, and there is a lot of discussion around them and moderation across different settings.

 

I find this Forum a good place for my CPD and I think it is so good that we can ask a question and some lovely person will be able to guide us towards an answer. You all keep me up to date and on my toes.