I Give Up.

[sam2368]

The inspector has posted the wrong report for my setting.

She promised faithfully, after we challenged her intial report because it didn't match up to what she said, and she's still posted it. She also claims we weren't recording medication administering, but we were, we had omitted the time medicine was actually given, so that has impacted on everything else. I'm so disappointed; our Area Senco couldn't understand why we didin't get a smattering of 1s, my EYPS assessor thought we'd got outstanding; I can't tell you how sad I am this report will be hanging over us for the next 3 years.

 

I've been reading through others reports and they've acheived 1s depsite having actions and at least 2 recommendations. It's just so inconsistent.

[Alison]

did you have a scribe from the early years taking notes at the feed back time? if so maybe you can appeal based on independant recording on what was said

 

 

this is the frustration of ofsted inspections its all based on one persons opinion on what they see at the time its not a true reflection of a setting and parents need to be aware of that when they read the reports

 

try not to let it eat you up, you know your strengths and qualities and Im sure the parents know its a good setting

 

we printed the inspection report up for parents to see and then added an action plan sheet to explain to parents how we planned to improve the setting following the recommondations that Ofsted highlighted, and to be honest I've never seen a parent read the ofsted report! so many parents just dont bother looking. but I wish I could post my action plan on the end of the ofsted report online so everyone knows we have got the issues in hand

[sam2368]

But she's stating we only operate outside school hours and during holidays - we don't we're a preschool running term time only. She's also put our chair's email as contact even though the setting has its own email address. It's almost as though she's reported another setting.

 

I just find it very hypocritical and it just highlights the need for a more realistic system (although i don't know what that would be!)

 

and I know inspectors are human too, my friend is an inspector, it just amazes me how standard vary so vastly even in the same counties.

 

People will come to us because of where we are, and we do a great job which is an added bonus. I won't let it get me down and it does make me strive to be even better, its just so disheartening when others can see it but this particular inspector has not only not seen it (she spent hardly any time in the preschool, lots in the office talking to me and my chair about EYPs stuff and her pet project of EAL) but has also been unable to do what she said.

[Inge]

If it was me I think it would be time for a complaint to them about the inaccuracy of just the basic information.. they must have a complaints procedure to follow.. probably found on their website.

 

I would also appeal if it is as inaccurate as you say,( not knowing setting or report it is hard for me to comment further)

 

 

Inge

[hali]

oh dear thats not good - i would do as Inge suggests

[sam2368]

I've emailed my chair, who was dealing with the draft report, saying just that. I think it justifies a complaint too.

[Cait]

You can challenge it formally. We were going to with ours and actually started the process before thinking "oh, what's the point" as it was only a fairly minor issue, of us not apparently attending to something from the previous report, which we had.

[Guest]

Complain , long and hard, ask your parents for support and put your complaints in writing.

I had an inspector who had issues with hygienic practises. At one point she had seen a toilet seat which was wet, the NN in the bathroom cleaned the toilet with the appropriate cloths, bucket and disinfected water, wiped the seat dry before allowing the next child to use the loo. She also explained that the cisterns unfortunately being full size and the loos being nursery size , from time to time excess water hits the pan and splahes on the seats. The NN came and said what happened and I spoke to the inspector, everything seemed OK. Next day during the briefing the inspector wrote that we needed to improve our hygienic practises, I was furious, we had done everything we should have done and the incident was over.

However in the print out on the net, the report stated "no one supervised the children in the bathrooms ", I knew this wasn't true for the youngest children, but it didn't clarify this and as for the other children the older ones always ask to got to the bathroom and are reminded to wash their hands etc.and are checked on return before playing. and so began my complaints. We have set routines when all the children are washed prior to meals / snacks etc, but the pre-school children

after my letter I received a phone from the dept. and was told that the report was on another incident , when 3 children a boy and to girls had left the bathroom without washing their hands., - so my questions were when and at what time did this happen, did they use the toilets, did they go to get tissues to wipe their noses? If they had used the toilet why didn't the inspector ask them what they needed to do next. Before reading the report I had not been informed about these incidents

The reply was interesting , apparently the inspector doesn't need to keep info as to time or even day when making scurrilous remarks, and yes they had used the toilet , and no she hadn't interfered. Oh yes one other interesting note , it wasn't water on the seat, she had "tested" it?. But we did get the report re written. All parents were really supportive, and a few days later I had a playgroup leader and a child minder who both said they were really upset by IP's that she had done on them for similar problems.

The fact that this person had worked in a bank,then trained as a social worker ,but went straight to the big O, from Uni beggars belief, what real experience had she had? Oh sorry she had read a book.

[Guest]

oops lost the plot previous bit should have said the the pre-school children are allowed to go the bathroom as long as they tell a member of staff , before leaving the floor , if they don't return within a few minutes the staff obviously check to see if there are problems. After all when they go to school they have to visit the loo's and look to their own needs. We have to be able to teach them to be independant and we obviously talk about the need for personal hygiene and safe practice. The bathroom has visual prompts for hand washing etc and there is a good supply of soap and towels.

[Cait]

It's all just so frustrating, but at least we all have each other eh! My husband says that OFSTED needs a regulatory system which we can complain to, and until we shout loudly enough to our MPs nothing will gt done. He says we all obviously have a voice, as evidenced on here, and we should use it

[Guest]

Complain please! We had a similar experience some years ago and our report was riddled with factual inaccuracies as well as points we had challenged in feedback and been granted concessions on. I am on my mobile at the moment but I will write myself a note to post tomorrow what we had to do for you. It was long and hard work but we felt better for it. Some things were altered and some we chose to concede on but please don't accept it if you feel that strongly. Will post again tomorrow but if you want to please also feel free to PM me.

[Sue R]

Factual inaccuracies are unforgivable and you have a right to have them changed - e.g. the term-time only thing, versus her version of out of school!! It suggests she has got settings confused, to me!! At least !!

[Guest]

OK our experience was very similar. This was in the days when the inspection report was posted to you for reading before it was put on the website. At the feedback the inspector raised a number of points which we politely challenged her on. We felt we had got her to concede on these points and even went to the office to pull out evidence to support our counter arguments.

 

When the printed report arrived she had clearly not noted any of the things we discussed. The report also contained a number of factual inaccuracies about the setting that were well established facts. We sat and went through the whole report marking which parts needed changing in our mind. We then tried to call Ofsted to ask for advice on how to proceed. I was told that information on how to complain to Ofsted was on the website or they would send a leaflet on how to contest an inspection judgement. Unfortunately this leaflet only seemed to apply to settings who wanted to argue that they had done better than the report stated, eg, good rather than satisfactory. Challenging factual inaccuracies and points which did not change the overall judgement did not seem to be covered.

 

We called our LA team for further advice only to be told, I'm afraid, "sorry we don't know what to do, but if you find out do let us know". Whether this was true or not I can't say but it is quite evident that our advisors do not like to put their heads above the parapet for us. I then researched how we could make a complaint about Ofsted as they were not returning calls or responding to letters, etc. It seems that no one actually oversees their work. The best advice I could find was that we could complain to the Parliamentary Ombudsman as Ofsted are a government body. We also considered writing to the local paper and our MP for support, but before things got that far I finally managed to get a sympathetic and proactive member of the Ofsted team on the phone. She finally took some action and agreed that a new report would be written for our approval.

 

Unfortunately the time in which all this took meant that the report was already on the website before it was amended, but the new report was put on the site after we approved it. The overall judgement was not changed, but although we would have loved it to be, we had not intended this. We had simply wanted the facts stated correctly and the points we challenged and had accepted, changed, as we felt that they substantially altered the tone of the report.

 

I don't know if this post completely conveys the true stress we all felt at the time, or the length of time it took, or even how helpless we felt in undertaking the whole procedure. All I can say it was really awful at the time and it has shaped how our setting views Ofsted and the LA support quite strongly. Basically we now don't hope for support from anyone, and I do strongly believe that some form of governance of Ofsted ought to be established. But take heart from this story - it can be done and if you feel strongly enough you really should challenge them, but don't expect the authorities to make it easy for you. Good luck with whatever you decide. On the plus side our next inspection was a lot nicer and the inspector made sure we were happy with everything. I'm not sure but we ight have been marked as "very stroppy" in the Ofsted book and so they wanted to avoid another mess. We also learnt that the previous inspector had not made mention of our actions from the inspection before the complaint and the system required our nice inspector to mark these off before even starting the inspection! (If that makes sense!)

[sam2368]

Holly, you could be describing what's happened to us step by step. My chair has sent an email directly to Ofsted and has deliberately avoided sending it to the inspector as she hasn't acted according to how she said she would. Our inspection took place on 26th February; we had received the paper copy & disputed the discrepancies within the given 24hrs (ridiculous time limit considering the postal system) via email and by phone to an ofsted bod. The inspector (who had said she would write up as soon as she got home because 'it was such an easy and lovely report to write' but didn't do this until 12th March) wasn't available until 23rd March for a conversation about what she'd done.

She promised she would rectify the errors, although had clearly changed her mind or forgotten much of what she'd said also claiming 'I can't put too many very's or excellents (despite practically gushing about us at the time) because my manager will wonder why I haven't given outstanding'. she said the wrong report may appear for a few hours but that she'd ensure it was removed immediately.

 

I'm so disappointed in her as a person, as an inspector and as a fellow professional and won't hold back from saying so to her if necessary. Unfortunately, when I was taking notes at feedback, I concentrated only on noting down the recommendation and ludicrous action and would've felt ridiculous jotting her notes down verbatum. I wish I had now!

 

I'm so cross with myself for getting so upset about this. I no longer want her to put the odd 1, although I really think my team deserve the recognition, I just want her to put what she said she would. And I want Ofsted to pay attention to their own poor standards before judging others. Now breathe.

Your support means so much, even though it saddens me to hear similar stories it's also good to know we're not alone. I'd rather be tarred as outspoken and troublesome to Ofsted than roll over and put up with it.

[HappyMaz]

Unfortunately, when I was taking notes at feedback, I concentrated only on noting down the recommendation and ludicrous action and would've felt ridiculous jotting her notes down verbatum. I wish I had now!

Sam this makes me wonder if we should be asking our inspectors if they would mind us recording the feedback session on an MP3 player so that we could be sure not to miss anything!

 

Don't feel upset with yourself for getting so upset about what has happened to you. Anger is a useful emotion and you should harness it to get this resolved because all this reflects on your setting - and it is hard not to take these things personally.

 

Good luck - and I'm glad to hear the fighting spirit in the last sentence of your post!

 

Maz

[Rea]

I used to know a woman who worked for Ofsted after inspections changed from social services, she was a social worker. Her job at Ofsted was, and maybe still is I havent seen her for over a year, to deal with complaints to and about Ofsted, she didnt like Ofsted as an organisation and told me to always complain.

 

Dont let any of this get to you though. I did after a bungled report and it sapped by enthusiasm and motivation so much so that 6 months later I was still dwelling on it.

After my inspection which had many factual errors, I put out a questionaire to parents based on the report. The answers I had back gave me faith that I was doing a good job, they and their children were happy and thats what counted to me, but the whole process had taken the joy out of the job and even with parents praise ringing in my ears things were never the same again.

 

If I was doing it now I'd send them a copy of the report with all the errors highlighted and all the correct information added. Phone calls are no good, you never get to speak to the same person and get told too many different things.

[Inge]

we have recorded the feedback several times, asking permission first, usually because only 1 could attend and we wanted to be sure we had it to report to others, never had a problem with the permission, and was useful to us, think I will now recommend it at all times.

 

must admit to not doing it the last one but as it was the same inspector for the third time it was obvious from her time with us and chats that she had seen progress and was happy with what she had seen even before feedback.

 

It was so much better having someone who could return 4 years later and see the progress you had made, I probably would not have felt the same if she had not had lots of early years experience from voluntary groups to school, and made us feel comfortable as she spent time with us and the children.

 

Inge

[Guest]

Complain, long and loud!

 

Highlight all the inaccuracies and send it in writing, by registered post to make sure they have to sign to say they've received it!

 

A childminder sent in 4 pages of comments about hers, with support from the Network and the LSCB (Inspector asking for poster to be displayed which was out of date although this was just one of many issues)

 

Complaint fully investigated, setting re-inspected by different inspector, new report posted on Ofsted site AND.......... initial Inspector no longer works for Ofsted

 

Go for it!

 

Nona

[Guest]

please compain- i had a similar experience in sept, feedback given wasnt reflected in the report, it had ambiguous comments and totally unfactual statements, i phoned ofsted and was told to put my concerns in writing, the lady i spoke to was marvelous! she interviewed inspector, who couldnt justify her comments and i had 5 out of six statements removed, this al happened within a 4 week period, dont let this go!! there are some good people who work for ofsted too!!!

ps we were reinpected by the same officer last month and i swear she had had a personality transplant and every thing went brilliantly!!

[Guest]

A lot of the time the old report is copied and pasted and amendments made. I'll tell you how I know this when I next see you!!

[sam2368]

Just a quick update...

Our inaccurate report is still live on the ofsted website; we have scheduled 3 appointments for someone from ofsted to come and discuss our complaint and today he cancelled for the 3rd time. Just ridiculous.

Sam

[Guest]

I am so glad to hear you are persisting with this - keep going!

I had an issue a while back when the inspector told us we did not have suitably qualified leaders within the setting. This was despite the 3 leaders being qualified teachers who had been in the setting for over 10 years and had over 40 years experience between us!! We complained and eventually had a call from the inspector apologising for her mistake. It does happen.

[sunnyday]

I am so glad to hear you are persisting with this - keep going!

I had an issue a while back when the inspector told us we did not have suitably qualified leaders within the setting. This was despite the 3 leaders being qualified teachers who had been in the setting for over 10 years and had over 40 years experience between us!! We complained and eventually had a call from the inspector apologising for her mistake. It does happen.

In the words of Richard Wilson.........I don't bel...ieve it!

 

Good for you!

 

Oh and welcome to the forum!

 

Sunnyday

Edited May 8, 2009 by sunnyday

[sam2368]

And the latest is....the chap who cancelled a number of appointments with us took the inaccurate report off or got someone else to remove it, on the afternoon of the 8th. This wednesday we received an adjusted report with a covering letter from the chap who never turned up, saying basically, that it was amended and he hoped we were happy with the result. It's still not accurate but better than it was. It in no way reflects feedback, still has the Chairs home number and email and the action still reads inaccurately but maybe there isn't a cut and paste for 'failed to record the exact time medicine was actually administered'.

My chair has written draft one of a letter of complaint, I've added bits, then after a bit of calming down we'll send it in.

I have lost faith in Ofsted and have come to the conclusion that they all have their own agenda and if you don't fit into their own personal tick box, you're stuffed. I know we have areas which need improving but I also know we work extremely hard and to an extremely high standard. If the inspector had been more interested in observing the rooms rather than chatting with me inthe office about her EYPS status along with her research project about EAL she'd have seen what we do.

We did get good across the board, which is great, but the amount of cut and paste in our report is appalling. She could've been talking about anywhere.

 

Rant over. I'm moving on, you'll all be pleased to hear!

Sam

[Guest]

I'm glad you feel like you have got somewhere. My personal mobile number is still showing on our report despite asking three times for it to be removed, verbally and in writing! I've given up for now.

 

From personal experience don't be surprised if you find yourself getting stressed about it in the future when you hear of similar experiences from others. From our replies above I think you will see it is a wound that never quite heals if that doesn't sound too dramatic. But good for you in moving on. Use it as a learning experience as I did and for myself I will completely lead the inspection next time and double check the detail before the inspector leaves.

[Guest]

I was tallking to another pre-school leader recently who said that she followed the inspector all day. She explained that she wanted to know exactly what the inspector saw and so be able to challenge anything inaccurate during the feedback. Also to question any assumptions she made when she had not actually seen something etc.

I thought a good idea so I think I'll follow suit!

Gruffalo2

[sam2368]

Well, 4 months after the inspection we finally have a more accurate report live on the ofsted website. We also received an unreserved apology. It's still not perfect and has the chairs home number and email instead of ours but I think it's as good as we're going to get and I'm really glad we pursued it.

 

It is very stressful, fighting Ofsted, but I would recommend it. We all work so hard and deserve recognition for this!

thanks so much for all of your support

Sam

[Guest]

Oh the power of persistance! Well done, Sam, for following it through.

 

I'd still be tempted to send one last letter pointing out the remaining errors though - perhaps that's just my stubborn streak showing!?

 

Nona

[sunnyday]

Good for you!

 

Sunnyday

[sam2368]

It was live before we received the new report too. Bizzare! Will definitely be writing and asking for the proper contacts to be put on too, the chair stands down in October.