Inge Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 inclusion/ exclusion of bank holidays is a bit of a red herring for term time groups as we all take the holidays out of term time anyway. the only time it would be relevant is when working out number of paid days off per year, you are entitled to so many paid holiday days per year regardless of the date, bank holidays are only the fixed date the employer tells you to take and pays you for... if you don't normally work that day and it is included in your entitlement you should be paid for it. Inge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 there's this PSLA one is this the one you mean? Have they published a new version to reflect the 5.6 week entitlement Cait - or do we have to work out the new formulae for ourselves? Maz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttercup Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 chocoholic thats just what we do. so easy for staff who work tem time. Staff know exactly what they will be paid each with with extra hrs added or deducted as necessary. The only problem with this method is if someone leaves. I will cross that bridge when i come to it. angela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Have they published a new version to reflect the 5.6 week entitlement Cait - or do we have to work out the new formulae for ourselves? Maz If you read down to the bottom they say they're planning to update it with the new entitlement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 If you read down to the bottom they say they're planning to update it with the new entitlement. Yes, I just wondered whether you'd actually seen the new one because I thought you were a PLA member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Yes I am at the moment....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynned55 Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Yes that's the one Cait & no Maz they haven't updated it yet. But instead of dividing by 48 just divide by 46.4. ReaderRabbit has posted quite an easy formula to use. Changing the subject very slightly- and just to throw another spanner in the works, it seems that most of us (myself included) pay 'rolled up' holiday pay i.e.we add annual salary with holiday pay & divide by 12. Well this is now illegal.Holiday pay should be paid when employees take holiday not 'rolled up' into monnthly salaries. For term time groups like ours this would mean paying 2 weeks at xmas, 2 weeks summer and rest at Easter I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 For term time groups like ours this would mean paying 2 weeks at xmas, 2 weeks summer and rest at Easter I suppose. I pay holiday as it accrues so that I'm always up to date. I presume this is OK? Maz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyfs1966 Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 Yes that's the one Cait & no Maz they haven't updated it yet. But instead of dividing by 48 just divide by 46.4. ReaderRabbit has posted quite an easy formula to use.Changing the subject very slightly- and just to throw another spanner in the works, it seems that most of us (myself included) pay 'rolled up' holiday pay i.e.we add annual salary with holiday pay & divide by 12. Well this is now illegal.Holiday pay should be paid when employees take holiday not 'rolled up' into monnthly salaries. For term time groups like ours this would mean paying 2 weeks at xmas, 2 weeks summer and rest at Easter I suppose. Could you give some more clarity on this please. Do we just spread normal salary over 52 weeks then give additional hoiday pay for xmas, summer, easter etc?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest colechin Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I am ashamed to admit but, I didn't know anything about the holiday pay going up. We currently pay 4 weeks holiday pay to staff. The most hours a person works weekly is 20 hours as we are term time and sessional, and 5 of these hours covers paper work time for their children's profile books and a staff meeting weekly. Last academic year the staff asked if they could be paid their holiday pay monthly. Which our treasurer worked out for them and built it in to their hourly rate. It did work out better for the staff, as if they worked a few extra hours now and again they were receiving extra holiday pay. Can anyone point me in the right direction so I can receive information on this matter as I need to pull a finger out and have it sorted for when we go back to work after Easter. I feel really bad, where have I been? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Can anyone point me in the right direction so I can receive information on this matter as I need to pull a finger out and have it sorted for when we go back to work after Easter. Here you go colechin - have a look at this link: http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/actio...emId=1073792640 RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynned55 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Yes Maz, what you're doing is ok.This is what Business link say about it: Rolled-up holiday pay It's unlawful not to pay a worker while they are on holiday and instead include an amount for holiday pay in the hourly rate of pay - something known as "rolled-up holiday pay". You must therefore always pay a worker their normal pay while they are actually taking their leave. Payment for statutory annual leave should be made at the time when leave is taken. Maybe I have caused some confusion talking about Xmas & Summer holidays. I'll try and make it clearer. eyfs1966 We work termtime only. I add up the amount of sessions my staff work, add on 4.8 holiday x by £?? then divide by 12. This is now unlawful and is called paying 'rolled up' holiday pay. What I should be doing is adding up amount of sessionsx by £?? & divide by 12. Then when they take holiday pay them the holiday pay. As we are a termtime group only no holiday is taken during termtime, so I guess I would pay 2 weeks extra for start of Xmas & Summer school holidays. Is this any clearer or have I just made things worse!! Perhaps worth checking on the Business link website or maybe ring HMRC as I'm sure it is them who regulate Working Time Regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 This is totally going to screw up one of my employees who needs the same salary each month for her housing benefit or some-such. SHe takes her payslips in each month and she gets the financial help. If August's pay is different - which it will be with this system - it's going to really put the kybosh on things for her. Surely we can choose how we want our salary - it's our money for heaven's sake! Big Brother or what!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynned55 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Cait, this is exactly what our Treasurer said when I told her this. She said if they (committee) are happy to pay it like this and staff were happy to have it paid like this, then why should anyone else have to stick their oar in! As it was arund six months ago that I told her about tis I'm wondering whether she has remembered to do it when sorting out next financial years salaries. Not sure it's my place to remind her. As for your employer, I wonder if she maybe better off re benefits as her monthly salary would be lower for most of the year then it is now, woldn't it? I'm not sure who is to enforce these reglations either. HMRC I suppose, if we ever got checks from them then our employers would be in trouble for not enforcing them. Does annoy me, I dont want to lose a chunk of my monthly salary and have it paid in one go, 3 times a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest colechin Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Thank you ReaderRabbit for the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 i work only term time but holidays should be paid on a pro rata basis so they wont get the full 5. whatever it is. I think I pay my staff 4 weeks and that comes in correct unless I am completely wrong?????? yes jaydee i do the same! i went on direct.gov website and used there calculator and thats what it told me to pay for the time they work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 i work only term time but holidays should be paid on a pro rata basis so they wont get the full 5. whatever it is. I think I pay my staff 4 weeks and that comes in correct unless I am completely wrong?????? We work Term time only but because our contract is a continuous one ie. we dont renew each term. We have to pay the full entitlement based on core hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 We work Term time only but because our contract is a continuous one ie. we dont renew each term. We have to pay the full entitlement based on core hours OK well now Im really confused what does that mean???????? Deejay was dmbz2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Deejay was dmbz2000 Good new name, you'll be pleased you've lost connections! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 OK well now Im really confused what does that mean???????? Deejay was dmbz2000 Our staff have core ours each week ie.. i do 35 a week so therefore i get 6x 35 hours holiday entitlement. If i happen to do any overtime one week i get paid for this but i am not entitled to any holiday pay for this extra. My daughter does 28 hours. she gets 6x28 hours. we pay 2 weeks at christmas 1 at easter and 3 in the summer. so staff get 6 weeks paid at what ever their hourly rate is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttercup Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I'm sorry but I understood that rolled up holiday pay was when you included it in their hourly rate not as some people are doing by paying the same amount per month. I'm well confused this is what a document we were given says. quote " holiday pay should now be paid at the tie when the employees actually take their holiday.' so that implies that this must be at the end of any of the terms. It then goes on to say ' The regulations have changed and employers can no longer simply include an amount for holiday pay in the hourly rate (known as rolled up holiday pay)' which I do not think many people do. It then says If your current staff contracts include rolled up holiday pay they need to be renegotiatd so that the holiday pay is paid when the leave is taken (usually in August for those staff working term time) My staff do not want this as they want the same pay each month. well confused angela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueJ Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 This is the text from the letter I have sent all my staff team. Info was gleaned from ACAS and Business link. It is complicated by the fact that my holiday year runs from September to August so therefore this year there are two formulae. With respect to costs unfortunately these have had to be passed on to parents. Having had a massive 15p per 2.5 hours (6p per hour) increase in EEF I really have no choice. Somewhere along the line we have to treat those working in early years with some kind of respect and that includes in their terms and conditions of employment - especially if we are hoping to raise the profile and professionalism of early years workers. Oops sorry soap box moment. "With effect from 1 April 2009 holiday pay entitlement rises from 4.8 weeks per year to 5.6 weeks per year for workers working to a 52 week year. As employees you work a variable week academic (term time only) year; the minimum number of weeks being 38 weeks. XXX's holiday year runs from September to August. The change in the minimum entitlement will therefore be in two parts for the holiday year September 2008 to August 2009. For this holiday year the following formulae will be used to calculate your entitlement: To calculate holiday pay entitlement from September 2008 to March 2009 (inclusive) the formula is (((Total Hours Worked from September 2008 to March 2009 / 47.2 weeks*) x 4.8) x Hourly Rate))) To calculate holiday pay entitlement from April 2009 to August 2009 (inclusive) the formula is (((Total Hours Worked from April 2009 to July 2009 / 46.4 weeks**) x 5.6) x Hourly Rate) For the holiday year September 2009 to July 2010 and thereafter (precluding any legislative changes) a single formula as follows will be used: (((Total Hours Worked for the Academic Year / 46.4 weeks**) x 5.6) x Hourly Rate) All holiday pay will be paid at the end of the academic year. If you have any queries regarding your holiday pay entitlement please do not hesitate to see me, alternatively information is freely available from ACAS via their website www.acas.co.uk. Yours PS: *47.2 weeks is used to determine annual holiday entitlement as no holiday is taken during term time i.e., 52 weeks less 4.8 weeks holiday entitlement. **46.4 weeks is used to determine annual holiday entitlement as no holiday is taken during term time i.e., 52 weeks less 5.6 weeks holiday entitlement. I hope this has helped a bit - once you get round the formula the mud starts to clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttercup Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 so you give your staff all their holiday pay in july/august. I understand how to work out the holiday pay thats not a proble. Its this so called rolled up pay. Each month my staff get the same amount of pay. So when it comes to holidays they do get some pay every holiday. There is nothing to say when you have to pay their holiday pay so is this ok. I suppose the problem is in a normal month without holidays they are probably getting less pay is it this bit that is illegle. still confused angela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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