New Holiday Entitlement

[eyfs1966]

Hi, new to the forum, so forgive me if I make silly mistakes here.

 

This is a question to all of you who work term times only. How are you going about giving your employees their additional holiday entitlement from 1 April 2009. As you will know, the entitlement goes up frpm 4.8 to 5.6 weeks of paid holiday per year.

 

Would appreciate any of your thoughts

[valp59]

I used the holiday entitlement ready reckoner on the dti website I think this is the right link!

www.direct.gov.uk/employment/holidays/page40455.html

[eyfs1966]

Thanks for thet. How did you finance the increase? Was it built into your cost base, or have you made additional charges?

[valp59]

I did include the increase in the budget but unfortunately there is a limit to how much you can increase fees. I don't know how other pre-schools feel but it just seems to get harder and harder to make ends meet and I just feel it is so unfair to keep asking staff to work for peanuts.

[Guest]

i work only term time but holidays should be paid on a pro rata basis so they wont get the full 5. whatever it is. I think I pay my staff 4 weeks and that comes in correct unless I am completely wrong??????

[Cait]

I add up the days we work and add the holiday entitlement then divide the total by 12 so we get roughly the same each month. Makes it easier to budget. If anyone does extra hours it goes on as overtime for that month

 

I knew that the 5.6 was coming in though, so did the sums from September allowing for that, which means that my staff have been overpaid until now, and I told them I'd done it and that it was for non-contact time up until April when I'd pay them that as overtime

Edited March 28, 2009 by Cait

[Buttercup]

i think you will find that it will depend on how many hours they do. I have 2 staff who work full time 32 hours a week and will need to be paid more than the four weeks but my other two staff who work less hours are ok. We are only open term time. I will try to download the information we were given about this from pata.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Beau
To remove attachments

[Buttercup]

sorry do not know how to attach as an attachement will have to wait till hubby comes home if i need to

[Cait]

sorry do not know how to attach as an attachement will have to wait till hubby comes home if i need to

 

That's fine - perfectly readable, don't panic.

 

If you go to 'add reply' you'll be able to add an attachment from your computer by clicking on 'browse' and then uploading it. Just practice - you'll get it, but this is fine

Edited March 27, 2009 by Cait

[HappyMaz]

I calculate the amount of holiday pay due for the whole year, and then divide by 38. Then I multiply that figure by the number of weeks in the term and pay that at the end of each term. That way I'm always up to date, and no-one ever has to pay any holiday pay back if they leave midway through a term.

 

For the moment I will pay them 5.6 times what they earn each week as holiday pay, so I guess I'm paying over the minimum. Might need to review this situation when it goes up again though!

 

Maz

[Guest]

This is the formula a friend was given by an 'employment law specialist' so you've got to hope it's right!!

 

Hours worked in the week multiplied by the annual leave entitlement (5.6) divided by 52 multiplied by the weeks they actually work = the holiday entitlement.

 

So if someone works 6 hours a day for four days, term time only, this would look like the following:

 

24 x 5.6 = 134.4/52 x 38 = 98 holiday hours owed.

 

I hope that makes sense.

 

It's a very fair comment about considering whether fees should be increased accordingly......

I will take this to Committee!

[Beau]

i think you will find that it will depend on how many hours they do. I have 2 staff who work full time 32 hours a week and will need to be paid more than the four weeks but my other two staff who work less hours are ok. We are only open term time. I will try to download the information we were given about this from pata.

 

Angela,

 

I've removed your attachments which may have a copyright on them.

[Guest]

I calculate the amount of holiday pay due for the whole year, and then divide by 38. Then I multiply that figure by the number of weeks in the term and pay that at the end of each term. That way I'm always up to date, and no-one ever has to pay any holiday pay back if they leave midway through a term.

 

For the moment I will pay them 5.6 times what they earn each week as holiday pay, so I guess I'm paying over the minimum. Might need to review this situation when it goes up again though!

 

Maz

 

Goodness I just HATE Maths!!!!

[Guest]

This is the formula a friend was given by an 'employment law specialist' so you've got to hope it's right!!

 

Hours worked in the week multiplied by the annual leave entitlement (5.6) divided by 52 multiplied by the weeks they actually work = the holiday entitlement.

 

So if someone works 6 hours a day for four days, term time only, this would look like the following:

 

24 x 5.6 = 134.4/52 x 38 = 98 holiday hours owed.

 

I hope that makes sense.

 

It's a very fair comment about considering whether fees should be increased accordingly......

I will take this to Committee!

 

 

So does that mean they should get 19.6 days holiday?

[denisse]

I hate all this but somebody told me that the new holiday entitlement INCLUDES bank holidays and they said that because there is only one that affects our contracts (term time only) it may mean that their holiday entitlement is not to increase as much as thought. Can anybody clarify this for me. I have a meeting with my accountant/payroll company next week so will raise it with them.

Dx

[Cait]

There was another thread about this a month or so ago, you could try a search for it because I seem to recall that this question was raised and answered there

[denisse]

I missed that one. Been so busy that I haven't been on here as much as normal. Thanks Cait will have a look.

Dx

[lynned55]

We pay the full entitlement even though we only work term time. To be honest this was set up many years ago and I only realised last year that we were paying too much. But whilst we have the money, then we pay it- goes towards all the hours that are put in for nothing. B.Hols can be included- For someone working 5 days per week full entitlement (@5.6) is due 28 days- however from this I have deducted 2 days 1 for May day and 1 for a day we cannot open as the church bazar is on.

The reason the entitlement was raised was to include bank hols for full time workers. Of course anyone working full time, would have 20 paid holiday days as the other 8 are already covered by B/H. So it's not quite as bad as it looks. I did have a formula for working out term times, it was on psla website, will see if I can find it and post

[Guest]

we pay six weeks holiday pay. we are also term time only but because we dont issue new contracts each term were told that staff were entitled to the full amount. we pay 2 weeks at xmas 1 at easter and 3 in summer

Edited March 27, 2009 by Guest

[Cait]

there's this PSLA one is this the one you mean?

[Mouseketeer]

i tried to tell our treasurer about this .....her reply was we're not entitled to it as we only work 38 wks a year ? also mumbled something about including bank holidays in entitlement, but we only miss 1 bank holiday at work really we're on hols for all the rest anyway so how can they include something we dont get paid for anyway ? pah..... i did point out that if that was so why was there a formula for working it out for people only on term time, we curently get pd 38 wks wages over 11 months then 4 wks holiday pay august, (this worked slightly better than the 4.8 wks formula)

[Inge]

you can only count bank holidays if you are paid for them, a lot of settings open 38 weeks are not paid for them anyway so if included in holiday entitlement they should be paid for..actually doesn't make much difference to these settings you still get the same amount of money / paid days off.

 

if somewhere you get paid for bank holidays than these can be included in entitlement, but it is up to employer to decide if they are included or not.

 

soo confusing..which is why we got paid the full entitlement each year.. but may have to change with all the money employers have to pay out in line with government increases and the income the government pays us does not increase by same amount...

 

 

what with minimum wage increases and holiday increases, and income from NEG not keeping up at same rate no wonder we all have problems... (not to mention the rent, fuel etc)

 

Inge

[Mouseketeer]

yeah its all so confusing.....we're now having to work our nursery claim over hourly rate even though we can still only claim it as 5 x 2.5 hr sessions, i wish everything would come into line...... same neg funding format for all counties, set payscales etc...

[anju]

We also pay the full entitlement i.e. 4.8 weeks soon to be 5.6 weeks even though we only open term time. We often work in the holidays and certainly do stuff at weekends so I guess it is a goodwill gesture towards that level of commitment.

[Cait]

Absolutely - that's my view too

[Happy01]

Hi,

 

We are a term time setting open 38 weeks a year. We pay staff for 44 weeks and its divided over 12 months so they still get paid over the summer. It works well and unless they work overtime they know what their basic wage is each month.

[Guest]

hi all

 

This is the reply I added to the other thread about bank holidays which explains how to pay for term time staff:

 

All employees are currently entitled to a minimum 4.8 weeks holiday rising to 5.6 weeks on 1st April 2009. This minimum entitlement is inclusive of bank holidays and is paid pro rata for part time staff.

 

For example if your holiday year is 1st April 2009 to 31st March 2010 and you work 5 days a week for 40 weeks of the year your holiday entitlement is:

 

5 days x 5.6 weeks = 28 days this is then divided by 46.4 weeks (that's 52 weeks of the year less 5.6 weeks hol entitlement) then x 40 weeks actually worked = total of 24.13 days holiday pay.

 

employers can't round down but they can round up or pay the exact amount of time as part days.

 

There is a handy calculator here:

 

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/actio...58926&r.s=e

 

Hope this helps

 

RR

 

p.s. it doesn't matter if you don't normally work bank holidays - you are still entitled to the full 5.6 weeks holiday pay paid pro rata for part time/term time staff!

[Guest]

i tried to tell our treasurer about this .....her reply was we're not entitled to it as we only work 38 wks a year ? also mumbled something about including bank holidays in entitlement, but we only miss 1 bank holiday at work really we're on hols for all the rest anyway so how can they include something we dont get paid for anyway ? pah..... i did point out that if that was so why was there a formula for working it out for people only on term time, we curently get pd 38 wks wages over 11 months then 4 wks holiday pay august, (this worked slightly better than the 4.8 wks formula)

 

Not true, she needs to check employment law. We use pata payroll services and all my staff work 38 weeks a year and are entitled to up to 5.6 weeks holiday whcih includes bank holidays and is worked out on the hours they work per week over the 38 weeks ayear. To combat this we have managed to sort out a monthly figure for pay just basic pay which is worked out over the year and includes all holiday entitlement etc, so they know that over the year they will get the same amount on what ever day they are paid, it does mean a slightly lower wage packet but its over 12 months rather than being paid say for 3 weeks Feb cos of half term and then a lower wage packet at Easter etc, Also it helps us forecast our budget better because we know whats going out where and when adn we don`t have to worry about hol pay because its already being paid on a monthly basis. Sounds complicated I know.!!!!

[Mouseketeer]

thaks for that chocoholic.....im going to work it out on these calculators and see how it affects us.....can some one just tell me how this bank holiday thing affects someone that never works on mondays anyway ?

[Guest]

thaks for that chocoholic.....im going to work it out on these calculators and see how it affects us.....can some one just tell me how this bank holiday thing affects someone that never works on mondays anyway ?

Sorry i can`t help you with that one, this is all too much mathematical stuff not my thing!!