New Safeguarding Regulation

[Guest]

Hi all

 

I don't recall seeing anything about this on here but apologies if it's already been covered.

 

It appears that as from October 2009 new regulations come into force regarding the employment of staff and volunteers working with children and vunerable people. Anyone working with these groups will have to be registered with the Independent Safeguarding Authority (and pay £64 for the privilage - although volunteers are free. This will also include committee members.

 

Propsective employees must apply first and if you employ them before they are registered and cleared you can be fined up to £5000 or even imprisoned

 

Current employees without a CRB are next followed by staff with a CRB - starting with those whose CRB is the oldest.

 

If you want more info the link to the page of the website relevent to employers is:

 

http://www.isa-gov.org.uk/Default.aspx?page=315

 

Also if you click on the events tab you can register for updates.

 

This will be an interesting one to watch because I know what most of my staff will say when I tell them they've got to pay £64 (for some that's a week's pay) to carry on working. We are lucky in that we're in good financial health and will be able to help the staff out but I'd guess for many groups this may be the final nail in the coffin -unless there is some LA funding around. I'm going to contact my development officer on Monday to see if anything is being brought in to help with funding this.

 

RR

Edited March 14, 2009 by Guest

[Guest]

Thanks for this info RR, I've looked on the website thanks but can't find where it details the cost of £64, could you put in a link to it please or desribe where I can find this info thanks.

This will affect me as a Foster carer, although I am self employed.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

Thanks for this info RR, I've looked on the website thanks but can't find where it details the cost of £64, could you put in a link to it please or desribe where I can find this info thanks.

This will affect me as a Foster carer, although I am self employed.

 

Peggy

 

 

No problem Peggy - here you go:

 

http://www.isa-gov.org.uk/Default.aspx?page=355

 

 

and this is the link the FAQ page

 

http://www.isa-gov.org.uk/Default.aspx?page=4

 

RR

[Guest]

Thanks RR you're a star

 

Peggy

[belle06]

I can see why they are doing this and anything that will help to further protect the children is good in my eyes but how on earth is this expected to be funded what happens if you have a large staff team., how can you expect staff to fork out this amount when some are working for just the minimum wage. Can see this causing some real fireworks.

[Gezabel]

Thanks for this. When I reviewed our policies I added the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006, to the legal framework of our Safeguarding Children Policy but hadn't checked for any recent updates!

 

I hope that ISA achieves it aims and from what i have read it appears to be a more efficient system than the current CRB. I like the idea that ISA will be updated with information which I think is a shortfall of the CRB. I have an enhanced CRB but it's a few years old now - every time I have asked about renewal I am told they have no lifespan, which to me, defeats the whole object.

 

As for the £64 cost I think it is money well spent ( thought I appreciate the difficulties the financial cost my cause) if it is going to result in better protection of the vulnerable members of our society.

 

I am not sure on the logistics of who is liable to pay (perhaps I haven't read the information sufficiently well )but is it actually down to individuals to meet the cost or is there an onus on employers to foot the bill.I know my employer paid for my CRB.

Edited March 14, 2009 by Geraldine

[Cait]

Is the £64 per individual - or for settings to register - it's a bit unclear

[Gezabel]

Is the £64 per individual - or for settings to register - it's a bit unclear

 

I agree it's unclear but I think it is per individual. £64 per setting irrespective of size (and therefore number of employees) doesn't sound alot

 

It also says that the payment will cover the applicant for the duration of their career which also makes me think it's cost per individual

[Guest]

So do you still have to have CRB check and then register with ISA who say they look at th CRB check?

So what about new committee or if i was to get a job at another setting? CRB checks are setting related are they not? So at the moment even tho i have CRB for current setting i still need another one for a new job? Or do i have to go to ISA if i was to get an additional job?

website says...

 

Applicants will be assessed using data gathered by the Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) (link opens in new window), including relevant criminal convictions, cautions, police intelligence and other appropriate sources.

Edited March 14, 2009 by marley

[Guest]

Is the £64 per individual - or for settings to register - it's a bit unclear

 

 

The £64 is for the inividual to pay - it is up to each individual to register and employers must make sure they have before taking on new staff from 2009 or retaining current staff from 2010.

 

The quote from the ISA is:

 

"We will charge a small fee for applications to register with the ISA as an employee or self-employed worker. This fee covers our administration costs and you will only be asked to pay it once, no matter how many times you change jobs.

 

We do not charge volunteers for ISA applications."

 

The section for employees says:

 

"Employees

 

If you are already employed to work with children or vulnerable adults and have had a Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) check, you will need to apply for ISA registration in due course. Details of how and when you should apply will become available on this site.

 

If you are employed to work with children or vulnerable adults and have not been CRB checked you will need to apply for ISA registration as early as possible. Details of how and when to do this will become available on this site.

 

In both cases you will need to pay a small one-off fee. Once you have paid for registration we will give you a personal ISA Registration Number and you remain on our database even if you change employers."

 

There is no fee for the employer to pay - the site says:

 

"Registering with us

 

It is the individual applicant’s responsibility to apply to register with the ISA. If they have not applied for registration you can’t employ them. It is your responsibility to check a potential employee or volunteer’s status. If an applicant is not ISA-registered they have either not applied or are on an ISA Barred List.

 

You will not be charged for checking someone’s ISA status.

 

Once you have registered your interest in an individual as their employer, you will automatically be contacted should their status change – that is, if new information leads to an ISA decision to bar them."

 

 

 

However, it's just occured to me that whilst I'm sure my committee will be prepared to pay either most or all of our permanent team's costs - we've got 2 settings with a total of 20 staff, I'm not so sure they will be prepared to pay for the 10 or 15 temps we take on for holiday playschemes. Not so sure either that those temps (who we pay minimum wage and they only work for 4 weeks) will be so keen to pay £64 if they are only doing the job to earn some quick cash. I suppose it'll be different for those who already work with children in other settings (e.g. trainee teachers, sports coaches etc) but many of our temps are 18 year olds who've just left school and are looking for bit of cash to take to uni - tescos shelf stacking will look even more attractive

 

oh hum - yet another hoop to jump through. Call me cynical but I wonder how long it'll be before the first high profile case of someone slipping through the net and the offical line of "lessons will be learned". I know that if it saves one child from harm it's got to be worth doing all we can but let's be honest, people who want to harm children will always find a way to do it (and I'm talking from personal experience here - no CRB check or ISA check would have stopped my situation - it's the ones you let into your homes that are the biggest danger). Although I must admit that I too have always felt that the biggest flaw of CRBs is that they are like MOTs and only tell you the situation on the day of check.

 

OK - I'll stop now - cos I feel like like I'm going off on one

 

RR

[Guest]

So do you still have to have CRB check and then register with ISA who say they look at th CRB check?

So what about new committee or if i was to get a job at another setting? CRB checks are setting related are they not? So at the moment even tho i have CRB for current setting i still need another one for a new job? Or do i have to go to ISA if i was to get an additional job?

website says...

 

Applicants will be assessed using data gathered by the Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) (link opens in new window), including relevant criminal convictions, cautions, police intelligence and other appropriate sources.

 

Yes, it looks like CRBs are still required - the FAQ section says:

 

 

Will I still need to get a Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) Enhanced Disclosure or can I rely on the new vetting service?

 

 

A check will only show if a person is ISA-registered, which means the ISA has found no known reason why the applicant should not work with children or vulnerable adults. It also means that we will review their status if any new information becomes available. It does not check for malpractice or all criminal convictions, and therefore registration with the ISA does not guarantee that a person has no criminal history.

 

A CRB check provides a fuller picture of a person’s criminal history and allows employers to make informed decisions as to whether that person is suitable for a particular role or position.

 

For individuals registered with the Vetting and Barring Scheme, further Enhanced CRB checks will be at the employers’ discretion and organisations may still wish to apply for CRB Enhanced Disclosure to obtain an applicant’s full criminal record. However, where there is a legal requirement to check or they are required by a regulatory body (such as Ofsted), it is envisaged that the existing statutory requirements for CRB Enhanced Disclosures will still apply.

 

RR

[Guest]

Just one other thing - I've email the ISA to ask what happens if someone has a free registration as a volunteer but subsequently becomes employed. I'll let you know the answer but I'll bet a pound to a penny that they'll have to re-register and pay the £64.

 

RR

[Cait]

So if I wasn't a member of this fantastic site - how would I know about it?

[Guest]

So if I wasn't a member of this fantastic site - how would I know about it?

 

 

I feel like that about loads of stuff the £20 annual membership for this site has paid for itself 10 times over with the time I've saved

 

I only knew about it because I also work in adult ed and it was brought to my attention when I was wearing that hat

 

RR

[Gezabel]

A check will only show if a person is ISA-registered, which means the ISA has found no known reason why the applicant should not work with children or vulnerable adults. It also means that we will review their status if any new information becomes available. It does not check for malpractice or all criminal convictions, and therefore registration with the ISA does not guarantee that a person has no criminal history.

 

A CRB check provides a fuller picture of a person’s criminal history and allows employers to make informed decisions as to whether that person is suitable for a particular role or position.

 

OK maybe I am having a senior moment here but.....

 

If I have a new enhanced CRB and register with ISA how does that provide any greater protection for the children I work with?

 

ISA say that my status will be reviewed 'if any new information becomes available' - how will that information be made available to them if they do not check for malpractice or all criminal convictions??? I believe no system is totally foolproof but why the time, effort and expense on this new system if ISA cannot guarantee a person has no criminal conviction.

 

I just don't 'get it' how is this any better than 'just' the CRB system we have at the moment????

[blondie]

thanks from me too - surely we should have been told about this by now -we have just crb checked two members of staff as our committee want all sraff to have recent ones - we now all have checks just one year old but would have waited and paid for isa checks as crbs we have just done will not be enough

[Cait]

So will all settings be written to, do you reckon - or are we just supposed to know this stuff by osmosis?

[Shiny]

They will probably write to us in September to tell us!! Or wait until we all fail our Ofsted inspection because of it!!

[Guest]

We were told about this last week at a managers meeting, our advisors are looking into whether they will be able to suppply funding to cover the cost of the £64... we are just waiting to hear if this is possible...

[Guest]

 

ISA say that my status will be reviewed 'if any new information becomes available' - how will that information be made available to them if they do not check for malpractice or all criminal convictions??? I believe no system is totally foolproof but why the time, effort and expense on this new system if ISA cannot guarantee a person has no criminal conviction.

 

 

the info about how the ISA will know is here:

 

http://www.isa-gov.org.uk/PDF/283896_ISA_A4_FactSheetNo5.pdf

 

So really the only difference between this and CRB is that if anyone does get caught the info will updated quicker than if we waited to carry out a further CRB check after they'd been with us some time.

 

RR

[HappyMaz]

So will all settings be written to, do you reckon - or are we just supposed to know this stuff by osmosis?

Why don't you send a quick email to your local early years team and ask them what their plans are to let groups know what is happening? Maybe they are planning to offer training support to groups to enable them to get to grips with the new system... or maybe they haven't thought about it yet!

 

Or add it to your list of things to ask your advisory teacher/early years development officer or equivalent when they next visit you!

 

Maz

[Guest]

I kind of knew about this a while ago but as we had been sent no official info I kept "forgetting" about it (code for burying my head!) Thanks for flagging it up again. I have a LA managers meeting next week so I will make a note to ask if they intend to inform us about it or help us pay for it. Personally although I can see the point of it I can also see two of my staff walking out if I tell them they have to pay £64 each for the privilege of continuing to work with us!

 

If I don't get any joy at the meeting we are about to appoint a new member of staff so I will question someone over that and get back to everyone if I get any answers

[Guest]

I went on advanced child protection last year and this was mentioned although I was waiting to here that it had come into force and have heard nothing until this!

[jennyjenkinz]

hum, this is very interesting. i have just read (for Child Protection assignment) Safeguarding children and safer recruitment in education...it doesn't refer to this ISA business anywhere! I'm sure these new guidelines/requirements must apply to everyone working with children, including those working in education...i shall watch this space for further information...

[chicken]

My child protection co ordinator attended a course last week, were this was discussed. She was told by our child protection officer NOT to register straight away, Sept, because if there is a general election and David Cameron is voted in he will be scrapping the whole thing

[sunnyday]

My child protection co ordinator attended a course last week, were this was discussed. She was told by our child protection officer NOT to register straight away, Sept, because if there is a general election and David Cameron is voted in he will be scrapping the whole thing

Thanks for that info. chicken - on that basis I am going to just 'push this to the back of my mind' for now.

 

Honestly you wouldn't believe how crowded the back of my mind is!!!

 

Sunnyday

[Guest]

Honestly you wouldn't believe how crowded the back of my mind is!!!

 

Sunnyday

 

You're not kidding Sunnyday - do you know the episode in Friends when super tidy Monica's secret locked cupboard is opened to reveal that it's rammed with junk?? Well that's my head

 

Anyway you may be interested (and probably not at all surprised) in the following response I had from the ISA when I asked what would happen if someone who had free registration as a volunteer later becomes employed:

 

 

"Those involved only in unpaid voluntary activity will pay no application fee (but if at some subsequent point you take up paid employment in regulated activity, a fee would be payable at that stage). The responsibility for paying this fee legally falls on the employee. It is at the discretion of employers if they choose to pay the fee for their staff, and we know from our consultations that many will, either in full or part. The Scheme is a mandatory addition to safeguarding not intended to replace CRB Checks. Where CRB Checks are a statutory requirement, they will remain so."

 

I wonder who they consulted with?? Was anybody here asked??

 

RR

[Guest]

I have just had this reply from them

 

 

The new joint ISA-registration/CRB check application form will be available to customers from 3 months prior to the launch of the new Vetting and Barring Scheme. We are working towards implementation of the Vetting and Barring Scheme from October 2009; further announcements and guidance will be provided as implementation plans progress, but there will be a 5 year period over which the system will be phased in. Registration process will be released shortly. Individuals in paid employment will pay £64 when applying for registration with the Independent Safeguarding Authority (ISA). The one-off application fee is composed of two elements- £28 to fund the running of the ISA and £36 to pay for Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) administration and, in most cases an Enhanced Disclosure will be included. Those involved only in unpaid voluntary activity will pay no application fee. The responsibility for paying this fee legally falls on the employee. It is at the discretion of employers if they choose to pay the fee for their staff, and we know from our consultations that many will, either in full or part. The Scheme is a mandatory addition to safeguarding not intended to replace CRB Checks. Where CRB Checks are a statutory requirement, they will remain so.

 

 

 

Kind regards

[Cait]

"snap" by the look of it - at least their replies are consistent!

[Guest]

"snap" by the look of it - at least their replies are consistent!

 

 

Yes, in fact I'd only posted the final part of the reply I had, other than bit I'd emboldened about paying if taking up employment the whole email appears to be a standard response.

 

RR