sunnyday Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Don't know why I didn't think of this before when I replied to this thread........ 16 years ago - family fairly new to our village - I had two of their children at Pre-school - mum went into premature labour with her third baby - rang me at 9:30pm - in a complete panic and said "this is a terrible imposition I know but could you come and look after the children I have no-one else to ask" of couse I helped her out who wouldn't?!? Anyway long story cut short - I am that child's Godmother - what an honour!!! Sunnyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Not sure if you're referring to my posts or not Maz and belle06, but if you are, my intentions were not to offend anyone.... and am left feeling upset and disappointed to think they could have. I do have an opinion on this subject and I told it as I saw it, and after having read and re-read other posts too I can't see anything in them either that should cause any upset to anyone. Anyway sorry everyone, I think I'll go back to being a reader only member. Esme, I think as HappyMaz said this is a very thought provoking topic and having read all the posts It is obvious that people have very different ideas, which is good because if we were all the same life would be so boring. I write posts, read them and then think OMG that's not what was in my head or I hope someone does not take that the wrong way, I am sure we all do, but its different opinions that make forums work. As I said if we all had the same opinions there would be no posts in threads like this one!! I hope you don't go back to being a reader only member, mrsW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Not sure if you're referring to my posts or not Maz and belle06, but if you are, my intentions were not to offend anyone.... and am left feeling upset and disappointed to think they could have. I do have an opinion on this subject and I told it as I saw it, and after having read and re-read other posts too I can't see anything in them either that should cause any upset to anyone. Anyway sorry everyone, I think I'll go back to being a reader only member. Esme, Please don't feel like that. We welcome everyone's opinion on here and I hope that all members will read others opinions in the spirit in which they are offered, and not as some sort of personal attack. I think you have raised some very good points regarding the liability a setting may be taking on by getting involved in a private arrangement. I spoke to my husband about this thread as he is my employment guru! He said that an employer can write into a contract that they have 'sole employment rights', as that is what is in his contract. He is not allowed to get any other work without asking, and would not be allowed to do anything which his employers felt would present a conflict of interests. However, unless this is stated in the employment contract then you have no right to dictate whether staff take on extra work outside of their contracted hours. He also said that no employer has a right to dictate what a person does, or who they socialise with, outside of the work place, although obviously you could be fired for gross professional misconduct if you talked about confidential matters whilst socialising with parents etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Hi everyone, This has developed into another really interesting and thought provoking thread. Working with young children requires people who are sensitive and pick up on details, so it is obviously likely that sometimes strong opinions can be taken to heart, even though not meant. I am sure we have all felt upset at times, but as others have commented, that is what the forum is about and it would be truly boring if we all agreed. Meeting challenges is part of reflecting on practice and moving forward - painful but true! What strikes me is how amazingly dedicated everyone is who posts on here. Just think how surprised and delighted the parents/carers of the children with whom we work would be if they knew just how much time and thought goes into considering every such delicate issues. They are lucky to have dedication to their children's welfare on this scale. Just my thoughts! I have been a member for a year today and am renewing my subscription immediately. Couldn't live without it!! Lesley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Not sure if you're referring to my posts or not Maz and belle06, but if you are, my intentions were not to offend anyone.... and am left feeling upset and disappointed to think they could have. No offence taken here, Esme - I was just pointing out that sometimes things can be read into posts which are not intended because the internet cannot convey tone or body language. Actually this is something I more than most am prey to - no matter how careful I am with what I say I know that sometimes my 'sense of humour' can be misinterpreted. I'm sorry that you feel I was 'getting at you' - that was really not my intention. I do have an opinion on this subject and I told it as I saw it, and after having read and re-read other posts too I can't see anything in them either that should cause any upset to anyone. Your opinion on any subject is as valid as everyone else's, and you have every right to join in and have your say. My answer to belle06's point was about how things can be misunderstood, and wasn't commenting on anyone's posts in particular. Anyway sorry everyone, I think I'll go back to being a reader only member. Well that would be a great shame - I would hate to think anything I've said on here has made you feel so uncomfortable that you didn't contribute any more. Perhaps I need to be extra cautious when replying. Sorry Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Not sure if you're referring to my posts or not Maz and belle06, but if you are, my intentions were not to offend anyone.... and am left feeling upset and disappointed to think they could have. I do have an opinion on this subject and I told it as I saw it, and after having read and re-read other posts too I can't see anything in them either that should cause any upset to anyone. Anyway sorry everyone, I think I'll go back to being a reader only member. Esme -I was so busy adding my next point - I missed this post and had to go back to see what everyone was talking about. Please don't stop posting, of course your opinions are as valid and valuable as everyone elses. We will never all agree and sometimes one has very strong feelings about subject. Chin up and hope to be reading one of your interesting posts soon. Sunnyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I remember this topic being discussed a while ago and it envoked some strong responces then too I think sometimes this (although it can cause offence) is important I know if i write something that someone disagrees with, I value their opinions so often people say nice stuff for fear of offending and ok we need to be semsitive both in how we write and the way we read things but I would hate to think people didnt say what they feel... as for babysitting.... Its a difficult issue I run a preschool and have baby sat out of session also did some ferrying from preschool to local nursery how ever I also work in another setting where there is a stricked "no baby sitting" policy and I am glad of it because the families that access the setting have got so many problems that it might put us at risk babysitting I think in general a setting doesnt have the right to say if staff can baby sit out of hours but I do think there could be a code of conduct for staff to help them keep safe and protect the setting on issues of confidentiallity other than that once a member of staff leaves work there social life is their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I like the idea of a code of conduct Alison, but I have been pondering about some sort of useful leaflet to give to both staff and parents about babysitting. Perhaps there is one out there online somewhere already. For instance, Lucy's experience has shown the importance of having contact numbers for parents, together with information about where they are going and what time they will be home by. It could also have guidance on what to do if the parents don't come home when specified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsWeasley Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I have to admit, I often have opinions on dicussions and just don't post because I'm never sure how to phrase things in a way that won't offend people. But this thread has got me thinking... the team decieded it between themselves that this is what they wanted as they felt bad saying no to the parents about baby sitting. they like to know that they can now blame the nursery though the policy. thismakes it easier for them. Why should they feel bad about saying no to something they don't want to do? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I read your post makes it seem like you've made this policy just so your staff have a reason to say no, rather than saying no because they don't want to? Surely your staff should feel confident enough when talking to parents to say "Actually I don't do babysitting, sorry". I don't think I'd be able to blame the settings policies if that was not the reason I was saing no, I'd have to tell them the real reason I was saing no otherwise I'd feel like I was decieving the parents. The one thing I've noticed in this thread, is all the negatives of babysitting children who you care for in your setting. But what about the positives? I have babysat a few times for one family from our setting. Before I babysat for this child, I hadn't known them very well and sometimes found it hard to spend time with them. But after babysitting and spending some one on one time with them I felt like I knew the child so much better, and now they often seek me out suring the setting to tell me about things at home. So I feel now, after babysitting them, I have developed a closer and stronger relationship with them. She gets so excited when I'm coming round, and I do look forward to it too. I'm also thinking about children who have some kind of complex need. Whether this is medical, physical or mental. These families sometimes don't have enough support from friends and family and it's not possible to leave their child in the care of somehone who doesn't know them very well. I know this is going to sound ridiculous, but if you're going to go down the route of making a policy to stop staff babysitting because they might breach confidentiality, then surely your staff should be told they can't get a job in a local supermarket because they are likely to serve families from your setting, and they might breach confidentiality there too? If confidentiality is a real issue, then surely they aren't suitable to work in the setting? Mrs Weasley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliamch Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 If confidentiality is a real issue, then surely they aren't suitable to work in the setting? ...... and this one little line could possibly open a whole new can of worms! Well said MrsWeasley! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsWeasley Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 ...... and this one little line could possibly open a whole new can of worms! Well said MrsWeasley! Thank you! I was so worried I had offended everyone because nobody had replied!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 when i was working in a nursery, i did babysitting a handful of times. it was frowned upon. i felt they didn't pay me enough and i wasn't being told what i can/cant do out of work hour-eek, rebel me.... i have seen cases where staff don't stay professional and that is when it becomes tricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belle06 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Hi Esme just wanted to reply to your message, I am sorry if you feel upset with the comments in my post in no way was this meant to upset you or anyone else or make you feel like not participating in discussions anymore. The only reason I had posted making the comments that I had was that some of the messages could be read as coming across as harsh or severe and I know for a fact that certain participants in this discussion where quite upset at the vein of some of the answers and were feeling like giving up their participation within the forum. My intentions was to just give people food for thought as Maz has said the written word can be a very powerful tool and I know myself things can come across differently to how we would communicate them face to face. Once again sorry if the posts have upset you but the intention was not to upset anyone any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I agree with you too MrsWeasley. Making yet another policy to try to stem breaches of confidentiality is not going to achieve very much. Far better to actually tackle the confidentiality issue head on, and if necessary do some sort of staff workshop to drive the message home. Think about what policies are there for - they are a bit like a recipe for how we run our settings, so that everyone is clear about what needs to be done, how and when. However, if the recipe becomes too complicated or spans several pages, then the less likely it is that it will be followed. So before you add more to the recipe, think first if you have already covered this elsewhere, or if a simple extra line to an existing policy will suffice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 i dont think i would encourage any of my staff to baby sit for children that come to our setting, do not think it is a good idea and can lead ?? possible breach of confidentiality we are all close to our parents but that is very different from having a very personal contact with them, i dont think it is very professional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Wow! Have just sat and read through all of this and it really is a thought provoking thread!! I can see all the different points of view in all of the posts and to be honest now that I have read them all, I feel that it really depends on the family situation as to whether or not staff should babysit. I can also see why one member wants to know what the exact details of when and where her staff are babysitting. (sorry for the lack of names, its been a long day and I have hit fast reply and I know if I hit any other buttons I will have to start all over again!!) I think my main concern and certainly it appears to be the concern of others would be the confidentiality side of things. I have been in a few situations where the parent has asked me how their child is getting on or mentions a certain concern. My reply has always been "You will need to talk to my supervisor about it, I am in there as a student on placement and I am not permitted to discuss it". This reply always works for me but I sometimes wonder how a much younger early years worker will answer concerns. Will they have the confidence to reply in the same kind of manner, or does the fear of offending parents mean that they get dragged into a conversation they dont really want to have and possibly breach confidentiality unintentionally?? The reason I mention a younger early years worker is because if someone had approached me when I was in my teens and early 20's, I know for a fact I wouldnt have had the confidence to reply then as I do now. At the same time, not every young person is as shy as I used to be at that age!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Thanks to everyone who have tried ... and succeeded... in making me feel an alright person, and not some sort of inconsiderate, egotistical, opinionated human being. Like someone pointed out, forums would be boring places if we all agreed with each other. If I did offend anyone, especially LucyP, then I am really sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Thanks to everyone who have tried ... and succeeded... in making me feel an alright person Of course you are an alright person Esme. I think like everyone else here, your main concern is the safety of the children, a subject that all of us on the forum feel strongly about. As you have quite rightly pointed out, there are many of us on the forum with different views and opinions. It is how we hear, or in the case of the forum, read these views and opinions that makes us the people we are, all different with the same interest at heart if that makes sense. Human nature is a funnny thing. None of us set out to deliberately offend anyone, but as has been pointed out, the written word can be difficult to read and understand when you don't have the added benefit of viewing body language and hearing the way in which something is said. Come to think of it if we were all able to sit in a room and chat I think the following would happen:- 1. It would be a world record as 18000 odd members in one place would be quite a feat! 2. We would put the world to rights. 3. We would listen, observe and understand each other. 4. We would have a LOT of new friends. 5. I could finally put a face and a voice to the names of people on here I have grown to care about and respect. 6. There would be dancing on tables!!!! 7. There would be a lot of tears, from laughing of course! So hows about it Steve, can you get us a venue and provide the transport??!! Let me know when, tomorrow is no good for me, its St Patricks Day and Wednesday I'm at college, Thursday is good!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Thanks to everyone who have tried ... and succeeded... in making me feel an alright person, and not some sort of inconsiderate, egotistical, opinionated human being.Like someone pointed out, forums would be boring places if we all agreed with each other. If I did offend anyone, especially LucyP, then I am really sorry. As I said before, you have raised some very valid points which I think will help a lot of people who are thinking about formulating some sort of babysitting policy. We all come to the forum with differing experiences and views, which is what makes it such a great place. By sharing these different viewpoints we can all gain a much greater understanding of each issue, which in turn will help us to improve our practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Thanks to everyone who have tried ... and succeeded... in making me feel an alright person, and not some sort of inconsiderate, egotistical, opinionated human being.Like someone pointed out, forums would be boring places if we all agreed with each other. If I did offend anyone, especially LucyP, then I am really sorry. Bless you Sunnyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Thanks to everyone who have tried ... and succeeded... in making me feel an alright person, and not some sort of inconsiderate, egotistical, opinionated human being.Like someone pointed out, forums would be boring places if we all agreed with each other. If I did offend anyone, especially LucyP, then I am really sorry. Im glad to see you back! dont be afraid to share you opinion a forum needs oppinions to make a discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellerkaren Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I have to admit, I often have opinions on dicussions and just don't post because I'm never sure how to phrase things in a way that won't offend people. But this thread has got me thinking... Why should they feel bad about saying no to something they don't want to do? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I read your post makes it seem like you've made this policy just so your staff have a reason to say no, rather than saying no because they don't want to? Surely your staff should feel confident enough when talking to parents to say "Actually I don't do babysitting, sorry". I don't think I'd be able to blame the settings policies if that was not the reason I was saing no, I'd have to tell them the real reason I was saing no otherwise I'd feel like I was decieving the parents. The one thing I've noticed in this thread, is all the negatives of babysitting children who you care for in your setting. But what about the positives? I have babysat a few times for one family from our setting. Before I babysat for this child, I hadn't known them very well and sometimes found it hard to spend time with them. But after babysitting and spending some one on one time with them I felt like I knew the child so much better, and now they often seek me out suring the setting to tell me about things at home. So I feel now, after babysitting them, I have developed a closer and stronger relationship with them. She gets so excited when I'm coming round, and I do look forward to it too. I'm also thinking about children who have some kind of complex need. Whether this is medical, physical or mental. These families sometimes don't have enough support from friends and family and it's not possible to leave their child in the care of somehone who doesn't know them very well. I know this is going to sound ridiculous, but if you're going to go down the route of making a policy to stop staff babysitting because they might breach confidentiality, then surely your staff should be told they can't get a job in a local supermarket because they are likely to serve families from your setting, and they might breach confidentiality there too? If confidentiality is a real issue, then surely they aren't suitable to work in the setting? Mrs Weasley I agree with you Mrs Weasley we made the code of conduct after a whole team training day on child protection and how to keep our self safe from allegations. at the time of making the code of conduct the staff felt this was the right thing to do for them and to keep themselves safe from allegations. I think that at the time we were all paniced by keeping our self safe from allegations. I was just adding this view to make sure it was something that the whole team wanted to do and follow. And yes the staff should feel confident enough to say no to paretn and they do but they can use the policy to fall back on. there are lots of positives for baby sitting children within the settign as the children know the peoson well before they are left. confidentality is the reall issue and the staff and students within the settign are fully aweare of this and do follow the porcedure. within my postings before i did not mean to sound like it was a bad idea just saying what we do within my setting. Karen x x x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 And for those of you who couldn't open the attachment .... OUT_OF__HOURS__BABYSITTING.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Thanks Cait, I'll look at it later and comment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Certainly an interesting thread My staff also have a clause in their contract that they will not engage in outside employment without prior consent and we take this to include babysitting! Whilst a blind eye could be turned, socialising with parents outside work can cause a whole lot of problems, and as people have already said confidentiality is paramount. On our Safer Recruitment course I was advised to discourage staff from socialising/ babysitting purely to maintain the professional relationship. Also whilst it is very easy to say that once your staff leave its their own private life, sadly this is becoming less and less true. To this end we are in the process of introducing a Social Networking Policy which again will require staff NOt to socialise via Facebook etc. Do you really want your young (or old) staff telling the world that they got legless at a BarB Q on Sunday night for Parents and prospective customers to hand over their child on Monday Morning thinking am I doing the right thing? Do we have the right in this day and age? Absolutely and i would not hesitate to use disciplinary procedures to protect MY business. A young girl recently put on Facebook that she was bored as hell at work her boss read it and she is now back on the dole, I think it was a correct course of action. Just my 4d worth (yes I'm that old) The Token Male in Childcare Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 To this end we are in the process of introducing a Social Networking Policy which again will require staff NOt to socialise via Facebook etc. Have you checked whether this is legal and legally enforceable? I can see how you could include any facebook-based breaches of confidentiality or bringing the setting into disrepute under the terms of what constitutes gross misconduct, but to ban staff from socialising online seems very draconian. What are the views of your staff team about this? Welcome to the Forum by the way! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Thanx for the welcome I was a little worried myself about this, but apparently according to Safer Recruitment Training perfectly legal and enforceable and becoming more and more accepted in business. Have to say I Googled 'Social Networking Policy' and found so many now in force by businesses, Universities etc it suprised me, I then approached my Managers and Senior Staff and whilst wary they also could see the reasoning behind it. So only time will tell if the staff take to it or not, having said that they also have to lock their mobile phones away whilst at work but I have a great team who never even query it. The Token male Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynned55 Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 As long as staff aren't using employers time,computers or bringing the company into disripute by breaking confidentiality or other means I cannot see how a company could legally enforce this. IHow would you police it? Have someone constanly checking social networking sites for emplyers names. Why stop at these, why not include message boards like this? I think if you were to discipline an employer or sack them for just belonging to one of htese sites or posting messages such as What's happening tomorrow? to friends, then you maybe on sticky ground. Yes i completely agree, as a parent I dont want to be reading what the person i am handing my child to in the morrning got up to on Sat night but I also agree with Maz, to ban use of is not only draconian but almost legaly unenforcable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 And I absolutely agree and see where you are coming from, but we are not stopping them using these sites, what we are doing is asking them as professionals either not to have parents in their friends list so they cannot read such posts OR to be aware what they are posting may be viewed by parents and act responsibily. We have had no problems from the staff although we have spoken to one and asked them to review what they had posted, once the reasoning behind the request was explained, they asked to use the pc and removed their comment immediately and there has been no repeat. ALL my staff use facebook (in their own time) and are in my friends list and I have no intention of asking them to stop that, but I hope we as professionals are raising awareness of the damage that can be done. The Token Male Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 To this end we are in the process of introducing a Social Networking Policy which again will require staff NOt to socialise via Facebook etc. but we are not stopping them using these sites, what we are doing is asking them as professionals either not to have parents in their friends list so they cannot read such posts OR to be aware what they are posting may be viewed by parents and act responsibily. This makes more sense - your first post seemed to be saying that you wanted staff not to use social networking sites at all, whereas this last one makes it clear that you just want staff to take steps to ensure that they don't post anything that parents might see and be offended by or might bring your setting into disrepute. I don't think anyone could disagree with that! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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