Wildflowers Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) Just had a moan but can't delete the post, about being given a "penalty rate" for not being able to offer flexibility. Why the terminology? Just makes me feel punished and miserable... Edited February 15, 2017 by Wildflowers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I'm so sorry you're feeling so despondant x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Oh dear Wildflowers. I have a feeling that there will be many of us in the same boat over the coming months. We will need the support and common sense approach of our colleagues on this wonderful forum. Take care. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflowers Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share Posted February 16, 2017 Thanks for replies. It's the attitude of the LA that bothers me, which is reflected in the terminology they use when they set funding. There is the 'base rate', then they add extra for qualifications or penalise you for not being able to offer flexibility to parents - that's the penalty rate. Couldn't they have a base rate and then add for both qualifications and flexibility? Most parents want the start and finish time we got because of the school times of older siblings. From after half term, I'm going to be available to receive children of some working parents half an hour earlier, even though I need to use that time for admin. We finish our day together as a group. If some stayed on, we wouldn't be able to have an end of the day staff meeting. I do all I can for our children and families... I need a half term break! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Thanks for replies. It's the attitude of the LA that bothers me, which is reflected in the terminology they use when they set funding. There is the 'base rate', then they add extra for qualifications or penalise you for not being able to offer flexibility to parents - that's the penalty rate. Couldn't they have a base rate and then add for both qualifications and flexibility? ! This is of course what all the lea's do it is just the phraseology that yours have changed. The government gives the LEA an amount and they then slash it to create a base rate and then 'add' supplements....so all of us are getting penalties...they just call them something else. . Before this years shake up I had a degree led professional on the team but was 'penalised' for her not being in charge...rubbish isn't it! :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceinWonderland Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Surely they can't do that? Are they actually reducing your rate because of this? I thought that they were allowed to add a supplement for flexibility and other things but i haven't seen any mention in government documents about being able to reduce rates? I may be wrong but this sounds awful, like a real kick in the teeth for providers in your area. I hope they re-think this for you. take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Surely they can't do that? Are they actually reducing your rate because of this? I thought that they were allowed to add a supplement for flexibility and other things but i haven't seen any mention in government documents about being able to reduce rates? I may be wrong but this sounds awful, like a real kick in the teeth for providers in your area. I hope they re-think this for you. take care. But Alice this IS what they do now.....so our LEA gets £5 from the government...they immediately slash that to say £4.30 then they give you back bits for 'supplemements' ....they are not supplements they are less onerous depletions! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Wish Kent would just get on and let us know what we are getting Sorry Wildflowers and I completely understand your dislike of the word 'penalty' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSFRebecca Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 East Sussex told us today £3.94 - that's it ... nothing else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 East Sussex told us today £3.94 - that's it ... nothing else don't forget to update the PSLA database...still very few 'declared' on there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 East Sussex told us today £3.94 - that's it ... nothing else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceinWonderland Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 But Alice this IS what they do now.....so our LEA gets £5 from the government...they immediately slash that to say £4.30 then they give you back bits for 'supplemements' ....they are not supplements they are less onerous depletions! Yes, it is. I just thought they weren't allowed to call it a penalty or actually take something away from the base rates. Thought it was written in one of the government documents that they could add a supplement for flexibility, it didn't say anything about taking away if you are not flexible. But i suppose all councils are going to try and twist everything to make sure they keep as much as they can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 East Sussex told us today £3.94 - that's it ... nothing else How does that compare with current rate for you Rebecca? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSFRebecca Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 How does that compare with current rate for you Rebecca? It's an increase from £3.60, running cost of nursery is £4.40 an hour per child Edit: correction running cost including food / snack / extras etc is £5.54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 It's an increase from £3.60, running cost of nursery is £4.40 an hour per child Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSFRebecca Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Sorry, gave you duff information there. Our actual cost including everything we provide is £5.54 an hour. The £4.40 is the cost without any add ons (lunch, snack, nappies etc) So, with the £3.94 rate we will be £1.60 worse off, per child per hour, so if you come for a 4 hour morning session I will be charging you £6.40 but you will have snack, hot lunch and also any visiting people we get in (we have singing and yoga). We're lucky, as full day care most of our parents just want to pay the difference between the actual rate and our rate (off the top of my head, we work it out that full day care for 3 days week will cost less than £50 and then that will be reduced again by 20% if parents sign up to the tax free childcare.) We've asked all our parents and they are delighted that their costs go down so much, and so we won't be losing out. We'll only offer 4 completely free places and they will be all year round so the hours are fewer each week (more hours available to cross subsidise). Generally our parents come all year round and are used to paying 'full whack' in the holidays - but we average out their termly bill so they don't get a major hit when there's no funding. Alternatively they book for term time only and then pick and choose sessions each week (letting us know a week in advance). I think us full day care people have it easiest - we've got more time to play with to make the figures balance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 . We'll only offer 4 completely free places and they will be all year round so the hours are fewer each week . Rebecca...how will you choose who will get these places? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSFRebecca Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Rebecca...how will you choose who will get these places? We have rewritten, and reissued our admissions procedure - all our parents have had a copy and many have commented they think it's fair: Those with a fully paying sibling attending the nursery Those families who have had previous children attending the nursery After these criteria, the child who (according to Google maps) lives closest to the nursery will be give the place In the case of a tie a ‘draw out of a hat’ by an impartial adult will be made Children of staff will not be given preference and will be subject to the same criteria as other children I think as with everyone we are waiting and seeing and will adapt and amend if necessary - most of our parents who are eligible will look to increase their hours (so they have told us) as they have already budgeted for nursery costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 We have rewritten, and reissued our admissions procedure - all our parents have had a copy and many have commented they think it's fair: Those with a fully paying sibling attending the nursery Those families who have had previous children attending the nursery After these criteria, the child who (according to Google maps) lives closest to the nursery will be give the place In the case of a tie a ‘draw out of a hat’ by an impartial adult will be made Children of staff will not be given preference and will be subject to the same criteria as other children I think as with everyone we are waiting and seeing and will adapt and amend if necessary - most of our parents who are eligible will look to increase their hours (so they have told us) as they have already budgeted for nursery costs. thanks ...great to know. I have decided I cannot offer all 30 hour places free..but I am still struggling to work this out. What will you do about parents who want say 25 hours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSFRebecca Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I haven't thought about that as being completely free - but if it was to be the same as completely free the criteria would apply in the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 It all sounds VERY complicated to me :blink: :wacko: :blink: Glad I haven't got to sort out those kind of admissions!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSFRebecca Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 If there ever was a woman for 'complicated' it's me! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 so at the risk of being boring !! i had a phone call today from a prospective parent asking for a 30 hour 'free' place in september. I ended up in a long and complicated conversation with her about how we were restricting the number of these on offer. She told me her current setting is already offering 30 hour places (with lunch included!) for September. she then asked about our current prices and they work out at about a third of what we charge! I'm worried! Although this settings overheads will be much lower than ours I can't see how they have worked out that they can afford to run on 30 hours only for the next three years....have they really worked out their true costs and the ongoing costs till 2020....please ladies and gents do check before you say yes to this new regime that you have worked out your costs for this year and the next 3 years ..including staff and pension increases utility increases and rent/rates/ etc if we accept this system now we have to live with it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Could anyone share how they work out their running costs / break even figure please. Do you work it out per child, per session, per week or per hour??????? I have been trying to work this out with our treasurer but we seem to get different figures. I'm sure someone has a simple, effective formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 if we accept this system now we have to live with it! Exactly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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