No Nursery teacher?!

[Guest]

Hello,

 

Does anybody know the rules and regulations for Nursery staffing? Do you have to have a qualified teacher for a Nursery within a mainstream school? If not, how many nursery nurses etc would be acceptable?

 

Thank you for any help/advice!

[thumperrabbit]

I'm not sure but thought that it had to be a QTS if it is run as part of the school, and so therefore 1:13 and 1:8 for any additional staff.

If it is part of the school but run as a separate PVI provision (which is what a lot of schools around our area do even though it's Governor run) then they don't have to have a teacher in place.

That's the way I understand it anyway.

[catma]

You must have a qualified teacher for a nursery class in a school. You can be covered for short term cover like PPA by a non QT if they are under the direction of the QT. You must also have a level 3 or above other person with a ratio of 1:13 which in most nursery classes is a minimum of 2:26 places.

Check the statutory framework - it's laid out in there.

Cx

[thumperrabbit]

You must have a qualified teacher for a nursery class in a school. You can be covered for short term cover like PPA by a non QT if they are under the direction of the QT. You must also have a level 3 or above other person with a ratio of 1:13 which in most nursery classes is a minimum of 2:26 places.

Check the statutory framework - it's laid out in there.

Cx

If it's Governor run but registered separately though, am I right in thinking that they don't need a QTS?

[Guest]

Thank you, I have read the EY framework about having a qualified teacher but I wasn't sure if this was just guidance or a legal requirement! It is a mainstream nursery that is run with school (not run separately)

 

SB

[catma]

Thank you, I have read the EY framework about having a qualified teacher but I wasn't sure if this was just guidance or a legal requirement! It is a mainstream nursery that is run with school (not run separately)

 

SB

Therefore as a nursery class it must have a QT plus level 3 or above!

 

Cx

[Wildflowers]

My understanding is max 1:13 for a QT and 1:8 for a level 3. Is it 2:26 with a QT and level 3? If so, only in school nurseries? (Not that this is what we want!)

[apple]

Gosh 1:8 for Level 3's? I am in a maintained nursery class as part of the school. I am the QT and there are 2 Level 3's. We all have 1:13; so are you saying that the Level 3's in our Nursery should only have 1:8? Bit confused now as we have been running like this for years

[Wildflowers]

I had misunderstood the statutory framework. I thought a level 3 always had to be in ratio of 1:8.

3.33.For children aged three and over in registered early years provision where a person with Qualified Teacher Status, [...] is working directly with the children

• there must be at least one member of staff for every 13 children; and

• at least one other member of staff must hold a full and relevant level 3 qualification.

[gillpen]

If it's Governor run but registered separately though, am I right in thinking that they don't need a QTS?

That's right. A school near us has a nursery class registered separately, run by the school governors and does not have a QTS, only level 3 staff in charge.

[finleysmaid]

That's right. A school near us has a nursery class registered separately, run by the school governors and does not have a QTS, only level 3 staff in charge.

but then presumably they have to run to 1-8????

[mundia]

Gosh 1:8 for Level 3's? I am in a maintained nursery class as part of the school. I am the QT and there are 2 Level 3's. We all have 1:13; so are you saying that the Level 3's in our Nursery should only have 1:8? Bit confused now as we have been running like this for years

You are ok apple, it is 1 to every 13 one of which must be a QT, and one a level 3.

As you say many nurseries in schools have run this way for many many years..except one LA I worked in where it was 1 to 10...It was quite a shock to me to move to 1 to 13!

[thumperrabbit]

So does that mean (theoretically) that if there was a QT and 2 level 3's a school nursery could actually have 3x13=39

OR is it 13+8+8=29

Edited May 20, 2016 by thumperrabbit

[mundia]

I often worked with 39 children (or occasionally 52) as the only QT with 2 TAs in a maintained nursery class.

The clue word is 'every' I think so one adult for every 13 children. I've never quite understood where this notion of only the QT can have the ratio 1 to 13 has come from because there is nothing in the statutory framework suggesting this.

[Inge]

I did ask Ofsted at one time and they did clarify the 1:13 for the setting I ran with an EYP working with the children - a while ago now but yes we could have 16 children and ​2 staff.. 1 EYP and 1 level 3.. (PVI in church hall ) (and had we been able to 39 with 3 staff)

not that we ever did but except for an emergency situation when we had staff cover issues , meant we could open and not have to close.. we were in ratio..

 

Must admit I got it in writing as the chairperson at the time also asked Ofsted and got a very different answer.. which was the 1:8 for the level 3 and 1:13 for the EYP...

 

Always thought this was a way to reduce costs and be viable on the income supplied by the government.

[Wildflowers]

[...] I've never quite understood where this notion of only the QT can have the ratio 1 to 13 has come from because there is nothing in the statutory framework suggesting this.

Yes, here:

3.33. For children aged three and over in registered early years provision where a person with Qualified Teacher Status [...] is working directly with the children there must be at least one member of staff for every 13 children [...]

[catma]

I had 39 children with me and two NNs - quite standard for us teachers!

 

but then presumably they have to run to 1-8????

If the provision is a separately run registered provision then yes the lower ratio level for registered provision would apply.

Cx

[gillpen]

but then presumably they have to run to 1-8????

Yes, they do. It is under the umbrella of the school but is run in the same way as a PVI setting. The difference is, the Foundation 2 teacher has input into the planning.

[catma]

The ratios are organised in the stautory framework between registered provision and maintained and are quite specifically defined. For a school the QT status on top of degree is an employment requirement. In a setting the EYP/T would be the equivalent degree level qualification hence they can have 1:13.

Cx

Edited May 21, 2016 by catma

[finleysmaid]

thanks for this folks ...my level 6 practitioner has just returned to the fold and I was just checking about using her upper ratio (if I needed to !) so interested in the answers.