Toileting Forms

[Guest]

Do you sign a form whenever a child goes to the toilet to confirm if they had a wee, poo, washed their hands etc

 

We have a daily list of children who have been to the loo, and a comment section.

 

I just wondered if we were being overkill or if this is standard and if required, how long to keep them for as it's creating a LOT of paper!

 

[finleysmaid]

only when we're toilet training...just to keep an eye on things. On a white board rubbed off at the end of the week

[finleysmaid]

the writing is on the board not the wee and poo you understand!

[Carol]

We only do it for nappy changes

[lsp]

We record nappy changes. Only record 'toileting' when there is an issue ie child suddenly starts having lots of accidents. We record if they have been reminded, if they go, when accidents happen, times etc - basically looking for pattern or triggers.

[thumperrabbit]

We dont record anything! Just tell the parent on collection when they last had their nappy changed.

[sunnyday]

Do you sign a form whenever a child goes to the toilet to confirm if they had a wee, poo, washed their hands etc

 

We have a daily list of children who have been to the loo, and a comment section.

 

I just wondered if we were being overkill or if this is standard and if required, how long to keep them for as it's creating a LOT of paper!

 

Who are these records for?

 

Seems like a complete waste of valuable time to me........

 

I might do that if there were any 'issues' around toileting - but certainly not as a matter of routine

[Stargrower]

Have to say I agree with Sunnyday - not sure why you would need to record it all. We tick a sheet when we change nappies in our baby room and toddler room but this is just so staff know who was 'done' when and lunchtime staff can see as well.

[Guest]

Thanks all, it was something a past Supervisor introduced, but we are reviewing everything and I couldn't think of a good reason why we are doing it, just a big waste of paper!

[Guest]

the writing is on the board not the wee and poo you understand!

You don't have poo handprint pictures at your setting ?!

[Guest]

We were advised at our last safeguarding update that we should record, date/time and initial ALL intimate care procedures from nappy changing to wiping bottoms to changing a child's clothes. The advice was recommended as best practice based on recent safeguarding case reviews when nurseries couldn't clarify/confirm/answer questions.

 

It is a pain and I totally agree we are generating a paper mountain - took 3 attempts to get a form that was practical and worked for us. Am planning to scan and keep that way when I get time to sort it out.

[zigzag]

Goodness, no offence meant but what a complete waste of your valuable time! How do you manage this with the independent children who toilet themselves and also flush. In my opinion this is a major step too far.

[Stargrower]

Oh it makes me so sad...and mad! What is wrong with the world we live in today? What has happened to trust?

[narnia]

I have just come off the phone with our H/V..................she has finally done an assessment on one of our children.......school in September; still in nappies; language delay etc. She and I have been talking about this child for some while now and i have detailed all that goes on. BUT, she has told me today, in no uncertain terms, that it is 'your job to toilet train him. You MUST take him to the toilet on the hour every hour. If he turns up in nappies, you must put him in pants and if he soils, throw them away, but he can't go to school in nappies, they won't change him, so you have to get this sorted'.......................thoughts on this please?? I have given her my pov..................just interested to hear yours. Oh and he has a parent at home all day every day, in a centrally heated house ( just so you know the background)

[Lyanne]

That's a tough one for you, Narnia...

 

On the one hand, toilet training is a parent's job, & needs to be done by everyone looking after the child for it to work well for the child.

 

On the other hand, this child's parent isn't toilet training them, & the child needs someone who can help them start toilet training.

 

How long is the child with you for over the day/week? Do you have them enough that you will be able to do it? & what will happen at home when the child is consistently using the toilet with you?

 

I say all that, but I know I'd end up toilet training them if they were in my setting! We now bulk buy underwear & jogging trousers each term as we know we'll need them & that we won't get them all back.

[narnia]

My stance is that I am here to support the child and the family, and i always do so. He attends for his 15 hours only and I have been putting him to toilet religiously every time he comes, but he seems to be totally unaware of the NEED to go. He almost always does a wee if I toilet him, but he has never done a poo in the toilet, always in his nappy. HV hinks he has Aspergers and is setting up appointments for assessment. The school he is goig to will not support this...if he needs a nappy change, they will call parents to come in 'as it's not our job'...........

[sunnyday]

My stance is that I am here to support the child and the family, and i always do so. He attends for his 15 hours only and I have been putting him to toilet religiously every time he comes, but he seems to be totally unaware of the NEED to go. He almost always does a wee if I toilet him, but he has never done a poo in the toilet, always in his nappy. HV hinks he has Aspergers and is setting up appointments for assessment. The school he is goig to will not support this...if he needs a nappy change, they will call parents to come in 'as it's not our job'...........

Hi narnia

 

I resolved long ago to keep out of toileting threads as I tend to get a little irritated on this subject - but forget that resolution

 

My take on this is as follows:

 

The HV needs to remove her head from whichever part of her anatomy she has it lodged in - she needs to be talking to the parent and gently explaining that it is now time for some training - this opposed to giving you a hard time - I know that you will give your full support at pre-school but there has to be some sort of continuity for the poor child (you don't need me to tell you that I know :1b )

 

Is it true that the receiving school won't support him :blink: not at all sure that I believe that and if its really true they also need to get their heads out of their ***** and fulfill their duty of care to the child.

 

Oh and why, in the name of all that is holy has this HV only just got round to setting up appointments for him re ASD?

 

Oh and just one more point has he been seen by SALT?

[sunnyday]

We were advised at our last safeguarding update that we should record, date/time and initial ALL intimate care procedures from nappy changing to wiping bottoms to changing a child's clothes. The advice was recommended as best practice based on recent safeguarding case reviews when nurseries couldn't clarify/confirm/answer questions.

 

It is a pain and I totally agree we are generating a paper mountain - took 3 attempts to get a form that was practical and worked for us. Am planning to scan and keep that way when I get time to sort it out.

While I am well and truly fired up! ::1a

 

I don't doubt for one minute that you were told that - but that is just not practical - at least it would not be in my setting......

 

I have absolute faith and trust in my staff team and feel that this a step too far - I want my staff to spend time interacting with the children not filling out forms.......

 

Did anyone on the training question that - I know that I would have

[narnia]

Sunnyday: no, the receiving school will not support; they will phone parent to come and clean up;

 

no, he hasn't seen SALT. I tried to set this up and was told I could no longer refer, it had to come through HV, who has just got on the case, because she's worried the school nursery nurses 'will have a field day with me ( her, not me!)'

 

and she's not at all sure that SHE can refer the child for any kind of diagnosis, it might have to go through the parent....................but i can't ( me!)

[sunnyday]

Sunnyday: no, the receiving school will not support; they will phone parent to come and clean up;

 

no, he hasn't seen SALT. I tried to set this up and was told I could no longer refer, it had to come through HV, who has just got on the case, because she's worried the school nursery nurses 'will have a field day with me ( her, not me!)'

 

and she's not at all sure that SHE can refer the child for any kind of diagnosis, it might have to go through the parent....................but i can't ( me!)

Did you just hear a very, very deep sigh?

[sunnyday]

Sunnyday: no, the receiving school will not support; they will phone parent to come and clean up;

 

 

 

It will be really interesting to hear what our lovely reception teachers on this forum have to say about that........I am really struggling with it

[zigzag]

I think schools are in for a big wake up call where tolieting and nappies are concerned. Have been in this job many many years and the whole approach to toilet training and nappies has changed(relaxed to accommodate lazy parents!) We have certainly had to move with the times at our pre school, why should reception class be any different?

[lsp]

Where does inclusion fit into all this. Few years ago we used to say that children could start at pre-school at 2 1/2 or 3 if they were toilet trained. Then 'They' said no, this is not inclusive practice and you cannot refuse a place on these grounds.

What happens in schools if parents cannot get in to change their own child - will they be left? Isn't that neglect?????

[Lyanne]

Narnia, I didn't mean you wouldn't be toilet training him, I thought you would be trying your best & am sorry if I didn't come across like that earlier.

 

Surely parents can't refer to the SALT themselves though?! Unless the Health Visitor means that the parents will have to ask the GP to refer?

 

Health visitors in Suffolk can still refer children to SALT (or could just before Easter, at least), and our SENCO & I are not aware if we can't refer either.

 

Younger son was watching telly last night when the p@mpers ad came on that says the nappy lasts for 12 hours. Poor son then had to listen to my diatribe of why this is not a good idea

[sunnyday]

 

 

Younger son was watching telly last night when the p@mpers ad came on that says the nappy lasts for 12 hours. Poor son then had to listen to my diatribe of why this is not a good idea

:lol: :lol: Our poor families do suffer!

[sunnyday]

Where does inclusion fit into all this. Few years ago we used to say that children could start at pre-school at 2 1/2 or 3 if they were toilet trained. Then 'They' said no, this is not inclusive practice and you cannot refuse a place on these grounds.

What happens in schools if parents cannot get in to change their own child - will they be left? Isn't that neglect?????

Exactly!

 

That's why I kind of don't really believe it but perhaps that's just my optimistic sunnyside coming through :1b

[narnia]

Sunnyday, I wish I was wrong..but sadly, that's the system here

[sunnyday]

Sunnyday, I wish I was wrong..but sadly, that's the system here

[starsdance]

We have a book in the nappy changing box to note when a nappy is changed and whether it was wet or soiled. Takes seconds to do whilst you are clearing the area. We also have a section for changes of clothes purely for a couple of children who seem to keep wetting themselves unless urged to go every 20 minutes

 

Our local school did say that they have never changed so many children this last year due to accidents and were a bit about it but I haven't heard of a school asking for the parents to come in for many years.

 

We can also refer to SALT as long as the parent has signed the form. We either give it them to sort out or we can send it off ourselves and ask them to come to the setting. Though saying that I haven't seen a HV in the 8 years I've been there.

[narnia]

Just an added bit................I checked with the two TA's for reception class tonight................and yes, parents would be phoned to come and change nappies, staff are not prepared to do it and are not required to do it