klc106 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Hi all, Apologies in advance for the long post. So, for the last 4 years I have ran my preschool with myself and one member of staff. During this time the most about of money I have taken is £300 a month and that was 2 years ago. During the summer we moved premises to a more local area. We had 4 children on roll, we are now up to 13 but a lot are only coming for 1 or 2 sessions a week. The business is still running at a loss and we have no money to buy resources, essential supplies or plan nice things for the children (my parents are currently supporting myself and my pre-school). We now also have 2 students. 1 has got her level 2 and is working towards her level 3 and the other (is also a parent) is completing her level 2. My paid member of staff, since moving, has showed almost no enthusiasm for her job, frequently undermines me or repeats what I am saying, argues if I ask her anything. She recently got given a final written warning for breaching confidentiality by talking to a parent about issues discussed at the setting which resulted in me getting a very abusive phone call from the parent threatening to remove her child. This parent is a friend of my member of staff. It is all sorted now thankfully. So, my question is... If I have both students in at all times when we are open (all day tues-thurs) could I make this member of staff redundant on the basis of the business running at a financial loss?? I realise there may be times one of the students can't attend but I am registered with a supply staff agency should I need to use it. I feel both students are very competent and both have their own children and have helped out previously at my pre-school. Any advice most welcome :1b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Oooooh difficult. I think you first have to decide are you a. dismissing her on grounds of unacceptable behaviour and breaching your employment terms and conditions? b. making her redundant because you have to reduce your level of staffing. Is she entitled to a redundancy payment? Either way you probably need to get some professional advice. Edited October 16, 2015 by lsp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundia Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I don't think so. In order to make someone redundant you need to show that the job no longer exists, which of course it does. I'd take legal advice I think as the last thing you want is a claim for unfair dismissal. If the person is on a written warning you may have to go down the disciplinary route, but again, take advice so all above board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenfinch Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I would also advise to seek advise. Also, as good as your students may be, legally there may be implications re. insurance etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I don't feel making her redundant is an option as the job still exists, however if she has had a final written warning then you may well be able to fire her. I think the way I would play it though is to have a chat with her and to explain that you are unhappy with her work and that feel she might be better off elsewhere ...tell her you don't want her to leave without a reference and it might be better for all concerned if she considered her future with the company[' in other words try and get her to resign....once she as done that then you should be ok!! one of you staff will have to become named deputy and I can't remember if level 2 is classed as qualified in the 50% qualified rule??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliceinWonderland Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Just wondering, has she been with you for the full 4 years? someone is entitled to redundancy pay after 2 years of employment, and you would have to prove the job no longer exists, as others have said. I think the only way is through disciplinarys. You have already given a final written warning so the slightest slip up from her you can dismiss, make sure you are on top of your supervisions, clearly stating what she needs to do to improve, you can increase the frequency of supervisions, maybe to 1 a week, as she clearly needs them. During supervisions be clear that you are not happy with her work, but be careful not to push too hard on getting her to resign or she could bring it to tribunal for unfair dismissal/constructive dismissal, unless she has worked there for under 2 years in which case, go for it, she can't take you to any tribunal unless you get rid of her for things like, race, pregnancy etc Make sure your disciplinary policy is up to date and states what sort of things may be considered misconduct and gross misconduct. In mine, a breach of confidentiality is considered gross misconduct, and therefore the person can be fired. ACAS is really good for advice, i used them loads last year, one for redundancy and one for firing someone (or would have done if she didn't walk out). Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klc106 Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 Thank you all ☺ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadOaks Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 You will be best to show you have taken measures to support and improve this staff's performance before firing them. If they make no effort to improve with your support then this is good grounds for a dismissal. Also the amount of time they have worked for you is a factor, ie under 2 years service is "easier" to dismiss somebody but still certain procedures are recommended. As mentioned, due to the position still being available and required by your nursery it is not the way to approach this. Just book many courses and conduct some support meetings out of hours that this staff member must attend due to you being unhappy with their performance. Also carry out daily or weekly Peer Observations to highlight lack of effort or a poor attitude, ie rolemodel to the children. Then with this recorded information, you can show you are willing to support them.. with out of hours meetings, courses etc, and if or when they do not attend, you have grounds for more disciplinary action. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy123 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Hi all, Apologies in advance for the long post. So, for the last 4 years I have ran my preschool with myself and one member of staff. During this time the most about of money I have taken is £300 a month and that was 2 years ago. During the summer we moved premises to a more local area. We had 4 children on roll, we are now up to 13 but a lot are only coming for 1 or 2 sessions a week. The business is still running at a loss and we have no money to buy resources, essential supplies or plan nice things for the children (my parents are currently supporting myself and my pre-school). We now also have 2 students. 1 has got her level 2 and is working towards her level 3 and the other (is also a parent) is completing her level 2. My paid member of staff, since moving, has showed almost no enthusiasm for her job, frequently undermines me or repeats what I am saying, argues if I ask her anything. She recently got given a final written warning for breaching confidentiality by talking to a parent about issues discussed at the setting which resulted in me getting a very abusive phone call from the parent threatening to remove her child. This parent is a friend of my member of staff. It is all sorted now thankfully. So, my question is... If I have both students in at all times when we are open (all day tues-thurs) could I make this member of staff redundant on the basis of the business running at a financial loss?? I realise there may be times one of the students can't attend but I am registered with a supply staff agency should I need to use it. I feel both students are very competent and both have their own children and have helped out previously at my pre-school. Any advice most welcome :1b I have a similar position with a member of staff who has leached off myself for 17 years and only recently got her level 2 ..... since then she has constantly pulled me up in front of other staff.She can be a good worker....but to be honest I am fed upwith it. Dont think you can make your worker redundant but maybe its time for a one toonewith both our staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klc106 Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Glad it's not just me then! Definitely time for another chat and perhaps a reminder she is on a final written warning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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