Lynne28 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Hello everyone, I am after some advice on what other settings do about recording evidence. What kind of things do you record e.g. fridge/freezer temp I am new to this and I work in a preschool that only offers a snack with milk or water. we have just started a lunch-club which parents bring in a named pack lunch for their child. we store these in our fridge and we record the temp once in the morning, we are only open for 4 hours maximum. Any help on this will be appreciated. Do you have some kind of checklist for e.g. cleaning of the fridge/freezer etc do you write a commentary on how staff prepare and serve snack to the children? Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Safer Food Better Businesses. It has diary sheets for recording temps etc. It's a bit overkill for what you are providing. There is a simpler document that covers childminders. Are you registered with local Environmental health dept? We have just done a few cooked lunches as part of our transition process and they were really helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panders Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Food Hygiene Course anyone prepping food should do the course anyway. You can do it online, it's under £20. takes a couple of hours. Register with your EVO at your Town Hall. I don't record fridge daily temp any longer, I record if it goes above 4 degs. Cuts out a little paperwork! Cleaning schedule is easy - every Friday. I am amazed your fridge is large enough to take the children's packed lunches ours definitely isn't and they must put cool bricks inside their lunch bags. I also tell parents (not that they take much notice) not to put anything in sandwiches such as mayonnaise, or yoghurts without using these bricks and definitely no nuts, or nut products. We do not "serve" their lunch, they take it from their bags at the table as they eat it, we do not allow any food "swapping". Gosh bet there is tons of other stuff we do, don't do etc. but really start as you mean to go on - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 We do packed lunches like Panders. Lunch boxes stored in cloakroom, it's quite cool in there. No room in fridge and also looking at the state of some lunch bags dont think it wouldn't be very hygienic. We used to have a separate fridge in our old building. We give children a plate to empty their lunch onto. We ask parents to provide a plastic bag and we send everything home. It means parents see what child has eaten and we are not storing food waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondie Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 we have lunch club-children bring in their own packed lunch - the children open their bag and serve themselves with their food. we supply milk or water for drinks. we also put any food waste back into their bag also so the parent can keep a check on what has been eaten. we do advise a cool pack but few supply this - our lunch bags are kept on the trolley in coolest area of room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynne28 Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) Hi yes I have completed the level 2 food hygiene but I thought that this was very unhelpful on terms of what information we should record. I have all the basics such as fridge and freezer temp and we are registered with EVO however they have not visited us yet and I am wondering what kind of things they ask you. we have recently taken over a setting however we have worked there for years and we just want to make sure that we are doing the right things with regard to this. Think we will be fine with everything but just want to make sure, we are a very small setting and only have around 9 children at the lunch club so that's why we put them in the fridge, however we can take upto 20 children so hopefully we will at some point encourage more children to take part. we are the same parents provide a healthy lunch pack and what the children do not eat goes home with them, so that parents can see how much their children have eaten. We also provide fresh drinking water for the children and most children bring a drink with them. On the hygiene course I went on they kept saying that food needs to go in a fridge because otherwise the bacteria multiplies very easy, so this is why we put them in the fridge. I remember when the EVO came in, i'm sure that something was discussed on we were doing everything right but we needed to have the routine of snack time written so every staff member are aware of how to do it. eg how to clean tables (when children are not there as we use anti bacterial spray, getting food from the fridge and preparing it, children washing hands etc etc etc. I personally think this is a waste of my time as all staff are aware of how to prepare snack and we only have 4 members of staff that have been working in the setting for 20 years plus, just wondering what others do? Many thanks for your response so far and hope somebody can give more guidance. what about HACCP? Do you think we need this? Edited July 21, 2015 by Lynne28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Ok. We have a list on cupboard door of 'idiots' guide to snack time. Clean surfaces with ....., check dates on foods, wash fruit, etc etc. Copy of this in policies and procedures. Also links into our daily risk assessment and this is where we record any problems and actions eg fridge temp too high so turned down. We had not been inspected for many years. We had EVO in few weeks ago for advice and then to inspect as we did some hot lunches. She said we are low risk and pointed us to Safer Food Better Business. We were fine with what we were doing for just snacks but needed to do more for lunches. Recording where food bought, recording cooked food temp, staff training for cleaning and food prep, any problems, improving ventilation, fly screens on windows and insect zapper. Few others things. We got '5' for our scores on the doors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynne28 Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 Ok. We have a list on cupboard door of 'idiots' guide to snack time. Clean surfaces with ....., check dates on foods, wash fruit, etc etc. Copy of this in policies and procedures. Also links into our daily risk assessment and this is where we record any problems and actions eg fridge temp too high so turned down. We had not been inspected for many years. We had EVO in few weeks ago for advice and then to inspect as we did some hot lunches. She said we are low risk and pointed us to Safer Food Better Business. We were fine with what we were doing for just snacks but needed to do more for lunches. Recording where food bought, recording cooked food temp, staff training for cleaning and food prep, any problems, improving ventilation, fly screens on windows and insect zapper. Few others things. We got '5' for our scores on the doors! Hi Thankyou for your reply. perhaps I will try what you said about ('idiots' guide to snack), sounds better for us. we do record the fridge and freezer temp once a day on our daily risk assessment. unlike you we do not prepare lunch parents provide this, so I am assuming that it would just mean we store it correctly, which we store in the fridge and the fridges temp is recorded, we have a 5 rating but obviously this was from the other setting which we have taken over, we have informed them of change of ownership, so would assume that we will gat a visit shortly. I will look into better food better business which I have heard of Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Sorry maybe I should have used the term 'step by step' guide. No offence intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynne28 Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 hi No offence was taken at all and I know my staff would find this very amusing however I will not use those words in the real document. like I said we all know what we are doing it's just more paperwork and time preparing this but your way looks very simple Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynned55 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 You dont have to store lunches prepared by parents in a fridge, schools dont - unless they are providing them. What will you do if the temp drops/rises in your fridge? We were told that once we took them and stored them in a fridge then we would have to guarantee the correct temp, clean it, check what else is in there (for allergies etc) However we are in a church hall and our fridge at times can be used by others. We would never get all ours in the fridge, even with stacking and then of course there is the contamination issue. We just store in a cool corridor and inform parents we have no fridge storage and advise use of a freezer pack. We were also informed that there is no need to use anti bac. Hot soapy water is just as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynne28 Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 You dont have to store lunches prepared by parents in a fridge, schools dont - unless they are providing them. What will you do if the temp drops/rises in your fridge? We were told that once we took them and stored them in a fridge then we would have to guarantee the correct temp, clean it, check what else is in there (for allergies etc) However we are in a church hall and our fridge at times can be used by others. We would never get all ours in the fridge, even with stacking and then of course there is the contamination issue. We just store in a cool corridor and inform parents we have no fridge storage and advise use of a freezer pack. We were also informed that there is no need to use anti bac. Hot soapy water is just as good. Oh okay thankyou for your information. I will look into what you have said about lunchboxes stored in our fridge, our fridge is just used for us within a centre which is locked away and we have the key. We also clean this which is written down. Regarding hot soapy water, I have recently completed a food hygiene course and one of the questions was about the differences between detergent and anti bacterial and the differences was that detergent cleans products such as the dirt from a plate and anti bac kills from germs. So I am made to believe that the hot water will kill the germs however the soapy water will only clean so therefore if the hot water kills the germs then that is fine. I was just pointing out that to me you have risks on both sides e.g. hot water from hot soapy water and anti back and inhaling fumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) EVO asked what we used to clean surfaces and then checked to make sure it killed certain bacteria which unfortunately I can't remember at this moment in time! We use a sanitiser spray. As others have said schools do not store packed lunches in fridges. There could be a risk of cross contamination from anything other than items which you purchase and use for the children. We do not allow staffs lunches in the fridge. Edited July 22, 2015 by lsp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynned55 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I think its the contamination that is the issue. I was talking to the head of our local primary school a few years ago. The school di dno school meals and had just got rid of its kitchen, however they needed a fridge to store the free school dinners equivalent (packed lunch). All they were allowed to store in there were the free school meals. She said she checked the temp every day and apart from putting in and taking out of the food it was kept locked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynne28 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 I think its the contamination that is the issue. I was talking to the head of our local primary school a few years ago. The school di dno school meals and had just got rid of its kitchen, however they needed a fridge to store the free school dinners equivalent (packed lunch). All they were allowed to store in there were the free school meals. She said she checked the temp every day and apart from putting in and taking out of the food it was kept locked. Yes I agree I hadn't really thought about contamination from the childrens lunch boxes, may need to change this somehow and make sure that the fridfge is cleaned more (once a day) if we decide to continue using the fridge. Many thanks for your help on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Am I being dim here...how can a lunchbox contaminate a lunch kept in another lunch box? :wacko: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I see parents putting lunchbox on the floor in the car park and cloakroom, some reek of cigarette smoke and others are rarely cleaned out. In fact some are pretty disgusting! Yuk! I think I can remember from food hygiene course that you should only put food stuffs that you can trace and will use for your 'customers' in your fridge freezer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Not to mention snotty little fingers holding the boxes on the way in. Nope, on a trolley, and we put ice packs in them.......which we then sterilise in a Milton solution before we freeze them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 the lunchboxes are not opened and the contents mixed...so how can they contaminate each other??? If you had ecoli on one outside of a bag then hows it going to get into the inside of another bag?....and to be honest this is surely the same as if they were on the trolley next to each other.....how often do you sterilise the trolley and more importantly the wheels if it goes outside or in a traffic area? also any bacteria will be slowed by cold so perhaps the lunchboxes would be safer in the fridge?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 It's more about transfering bacteria into the fridge and onto any food in there rather than food that would be inside another lunchbox. Not a problem if you have a separate fridge just for lunchboxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 It's more about transfering bacteria into the fridge and onto any food in there rather than food that would be inside another lunchbox. Not a problem if you have a separate fridge just for lunchboxes. unless you are going to sterilise every item you put in your fridge this is inevitable i'm afraid! ...the cleanliness of the fridge I feel should be less of a concern than the 'health' of the food being served......but then what do I know I only used to serve a few thousand customers a day! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynne28 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 unless you are going to sterilise every item you put in your fridge this is inevitable i'm afraid! ...the cleanliness of the fridge I feel should be less of a concern than the 'health' of the food being served......but then what do I know I only used to serve a few thousand customers a day! Hi This is exactly how I feel, I personally think that the lunch boxes should be in a fridge and I thought I was doing the right thing by storing them in the fridge and like I say we do clean the fridge. I personally still think that the fridge is the best place for the children's lunch boxes esp in the hot weather and I probably won't change it. Thankyou I now think I am doing it right and I will sort out areas in the fridge for our stuff and I will keep the children's lunch boxes on the other side, its a big fridge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsp Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Like everything else - we all have different environments and do the best with what we have. We get different advice. As long as we keep everyone safe and healthy there should be no problems? Interesting discussion. Edited July 23, 2015 by lsp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynne28 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Like everything else - we all have different environments and do the best with what we have. We get different advice. As long as we keep everyone safe and healthy there should be no problems? Interesting discussion. I agree a very interesting discussion and like you say we have to work with what we have and some things will work differently in each setting, as all settings are individual. I think it is nice when we all have different opinions and this will never change, because what will work for one setting might not work for others. we are given all different information and it would be much easier if someone out there came up with statutory guidelines that we must all do, rather than us find out information for ourselves. Many thanks once again and would love more people to say what they do within their setting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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