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monitoring numbers


Clare_Matthews
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Our supervisor has a table set out in Word and for every session separates out 2 year olds and 3+,writes a total number of children and how many staff are required per age group and therefore how many staff each session.

 

She prints a new version every week and highlights those with a birthday that week as it changes every time a 2 year old has a birthday, so some weeks we are down to the wire with staff and the next we seem to be overrun with adults! !

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With the ratios required as

4 x 2yr olds = 1 staff

8 x 3yr olds = 1 staff

Then yes your ratios are fine- in fact not even mixed.

I have a lovely A4 table that I downloaded from this site a good few years ago. I have it printed off and displayed so all staff can see at a glance that we are in ration.

Although to be honest as a sessional preschool, 28 children, it's not actually much of a worry for us. However it is handy for a quick referral for less confident staff should we have a staff sickness issue.

 

Edited to say - even though you are fine with two, if finances allow personally I would have three.

Edited by louby loo
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Could you point me in the direction of where you found it please louby loo? Or possibly share. It would be great for staff. Thanks

I wish I could :rolleyes: . I downloaded it years ago - before the site update, and I wish I'd saved a copy at the time.

If some other more techo savvy person doesn't come along with a link - I could scan my copy (next week though) and upload it.

I the mean time as I'm currently slobbing of sofa wasting time I shall have a look in the resources section and see if I can find it.

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Thank you. I have a letter from Ofsted stating its 6 points for a 2 year old and 3 points for 3 & 4 year olds.

So if you have 5 two year olds and 12 three and four year olds it would be:

5 x 6 = 30

12 x 3 = 36

A total of 66 points.

Each staff member equates to 24 points therefore 66 divided by 24 = 2.75 therefore 3 staff are required.

 

I hope this hasn't changed and I've missed it!

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Wow Ofsted are mathematical ha ha, I don't see how that works out though as if you have 5 x 2 year olds you need 2 staff on a 1:4 leaving a remainder of spaces totalling 3 (making it to 8) so 12-3 is 9 but then remainder of 3/4's under a Max of 8:1 so 2 staff needed here equating to 4 staff in total required, unless a EYP is working with 3/4's then this can reduce it to 3 staff.

Hope I've not complicated it.

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How megamum describes was always my understanding but not so much with points as with a two year equivalent to 2 three year olds. This was how I always thought of it until many people on here had this discussion and disagreed! We always have one staff member over and have 2 EYP's so it was never an issue as even with the other way of looking at it we were still fine! Nowhere does it specifically say (that I can find!) that if a staff member has 1 two year old they can only have another 3 three year olds - like lots of things it's very subjective and I have tried asking ofsted for a definitive answer but surprisingly haven't got far!!!

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I was told you cannot up a ratio so if you have a 2yr old in a ratio then the maximum you can go to is 4 children regardless of age (2+) you can reduce a ratio but not extend it so even if you have one 2 yr old you cannot extend that child's ratio as they must be under a 1:4 so only leaving 3 places x

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That's what many people say foreveryoung but Ofsted won't confirm (at least haven't when I've asked :-)) and nowhere is that written in the guidance so who says that? Not saying you're wrong and I stick to that anyway but I do think they need to be clearer about these kind of things!!

Edited by woodlands1997
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I have been thinking about this all day and I have thought about your point woodlands. If as you say 1 two year old equates to 2 three/four year olds, this works with my points system. Well, let's say Ofsted's system!

 

Based on my hypothetical numbers, under your system, my 5 two year olds would equate to 10 3 year olds and then I would have my 12 three year olds. So 10 + 12 = 22 three year olds. Based on 1:8 this as I said, means 3 members of staff. I'm not so worried anymore, because I feel confident to challenge Ofsted should it come to that.

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My daughter explains it like this. You are an octopus and you have 8 arms. You need two arms to hold a 2 yr old but only one to hold a 3 year old. Then you get mixed ratios right

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Ofsted may as well just adopt the "no comment" reply instead of giving mixed advice, I understood we had to work to youngest ratio if mixed ( no idea why), but then I thought maximum reg numbers were flexible now dependant on staffing and floor space but my EYA says not (and I don't know why I thought that either ....losing the plot I think) :(

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Mouseketeer your eya is surely wrong! You are no longer registered for a particular amount of children, it is down to space and staff!!?? Cait that octopus theory goes with mine then - you could have one 2 year and six 3 year olds??

Megamum when was your letter from ofsted about ratios from?

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That was my thinking too woodlands, had a visit from our new (though not entirely new just change of areas) EYA last week, I was asked how many I was registered for, when I replied I can take x amount of 3 yr olds or 2 yr olds she didn't know what I was talking about and asked again what was on my ofsted cert, I told her 30 as we don't have a new one, and she said well that's your maximum then, she didn't want to hear my "but the revised framework says I have to work it out" as she scribbled on her pad .....I'd love to know what she actually wrote :/ ssssoooooo when you are ofsteded now ( those who have been) did you get new certs with registered number removed ?

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