Clare_Matthews Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Hi guys . I was just wondering for those of you who don't use nursery an age mentioned software how do you manage and monitor your child numbers as ratios. I'm new and have just been playing with thr idea of a simple excel table document ? What does everyone else do? Quote
Melba Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 My husband wrote us an Excel program which calculates how many staff we need taking into account the difference in ratios between 2s and over. Quote
korkycat Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 I just highlight children in a colour to match the term they turn 3 so I can keep an eye on ratios. Easy as we are sessional. 1 Quote
bubblejack Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 I use an excel sheet as well. I use different colours for different age groups. I go into it weekly to see if I have any spaces for new children. Quote
Clare_Matthews Posted February 5, 2015 Author Posted February 5, 2015 Thanks everyone, I did think that Excel would surfice but thought i would double check! Quote
Running Bunny Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Our supervisor has a table set out in Word and for every session separates out 2 year olds and 3+,writes a total number of children and how many staff are required per age group and therefore how many staff each session. She prints a new version every week and highlights those with a birthday that week as it changes every time a 2 year old has a birthday, so some weeks we are down to the wire with staff and the next we seem to be overrun with adults! ! Quote
Clare_Matthews Posted February 6, 2015 Author Posted February 6, 2015 So odd question if I have mixed ages so 3 2 year olds and 5 3 year olds am I correct in thinking it's ok to have 2 staff ? Quote
Clare_Matthews Posted February 6, 2015 Author Posted February 6, 2015 So odd question if I have mixed ages so 3 2 year olds and 5 3 year olds am I correct in thinking it's ok to have 2 staff ? 1 Quote
louby loo Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) With the ratios required as 4 x 2yr olds = 1 staff 8 x 3yr olds = 1 staff Then yes your ratios are fine- in fact not even mixed. I have a lovely A4 table that I downloaded from this site a good few years ago. I have it printed off and displayed so all staff can see at a glance that we are in ration. Although to be honest as a sessional preschool, 28 children, it's not actually much of a worry for us. However it is handy for a quick referral for less confident staff should we have a staff sickness issue. Edited to say - even though you are fine with two, if finances allow personally I would have three. Edited February 6, 2015 by louby loo Quote
MegaMum Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 Could you point me in the direction of where you found it please louby loo? Or possibly share. It would be great for staff. Thanks Quote
louby loo Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 Could you point me in the direction of where you found it please louby loo? Or possibly share. It would be great for staff. Thanks I wish I could :rolleyes: . I downloaded it years ago - before the site update, and I wish I'd saved a copy at the time. If some other more techo savvy person doesn't come along with a link - I could scan my copy (next week though) and upload it. I the mean time as I'm currently slobbing of sofa wasting time I shall have a look in the resources section and see if I can find it. Quote
louby loo Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 http://eyfs.info/forums/topic/20690-mixed-age-ratios/?hl=%2Bmixed+%2Bratios Post 5. This is very similar, only difference is- the one I have is in colour and I believe it goes up to 28/30 children (it's at work so can't check) x Quote
MegaMum Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 Thank you. I have a letter from Ofsted stating its 6 points for a 2 year old and 3 points for 3 & 4 year olds. So if you have 5 two year olds and 12 three and four year olds it would be: 5 x 6 = 30 12 x 3 = 36 A total of 66 points. Each staff member equates to 24 points therefore 66 divided by 24 = 2.75 therefore 3 staff are required. I hope this hasn't changed and I've missed it! Quote
Foreveryoung Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 Wow Ofsted are mathematical ha ha, I don't see how that works out though as if you have 5 x 2 year olds you need 2 staff on a 1:4 leaving a remainder of spaces totalling 3 (making it to 8) so 12-3 is 9 but then remainder of 3/4's under a Max of 8:1 so 2 staff needed here equating to 4 staff in total required, unless a EYP is working with 3/4's then this can reduce it to 3 staff. Hope I've not complicated it. Quote
louby loo Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 How old is the letter foreveryoung? If it's older than the latest version of the EYFS personally I wouldn't class it as current. Quote
woodlands1997 Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 How megamum describes was always my understanding but not so much with points as with a two year equivalent to 2 three year olds. This was how I always thought of it until many people on here had this discussion and disagreed! We always have one staff member over and have 2 EYP's so it was never an issue as even with the other way of looking at it we were still fine! Nowhere does it specifically say (that I can find!) that if a staff member has 1 two year old they can only have another 3 three year olds - like lots of things it's very subjective and I have tried asking ofsted for a definitive answer but surprisingly haven't got far!!! Quote
Foreveryoung Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 I was told you cannot up a ratio so if you have a 2yr old in a ratio then the maximum you can go to is 4 children regardless of age (2+) you can reduce a ratio but not extend it so even if you have one 2 yr old you cannot extend that child's ratio as they must be under a 1:4 so only leaving 3 places x Quote
woodlands1997 Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) That's what many people say foreveryoung but Ofsted won't confirm (at least haven't when I've asked :-)) and nowhere is that written in the guidance so who says that? Not saying you're wrong and I stick to that anyway but I do think they need to be clearer about these kind of things!! Edited February 6, 2015 by woodlands1997 2 Quote
Foreveryoung Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 Our inspector (not last one, one before so just over 5yr ago) did say this as at that point we were mixed 2-5's and had a lengthy chat YAY we had a nice inspector x Quote
woodlands1997 Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 It's mad though isn't it as more than likely another inspector may have said totally different - who knows!!! Next time we get inspected I will definitely ask :-) x Quote
MegaMum Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 Gosh this is very worrying that we all differ and there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer! I'm now very worried I have it wrong. Quote
MegaMum Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 I have been thinking about this all day and I have thought about your point woodlands. If as you say 1 two year old equates to 2 three/four year olds, this works with my points system. Well, let's say Ofsted's system! Based on my hypothetical numbers, under your system, my 5 two year olds would equate to 10 3 year olds and then I would have my 12 three year olds. So 10 + 12 = 22 three year olds. Based on 1:8 this as I said, means 3 members of staff. I'm not so worried anymore, because I feel confident to challenge Ofsted should it come to that. Quote
Cait Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 My daughter explains it like this. You are an octopus and you have 8 arms. You need two arms to hold a 2 yr old but only one to hold a 3 year old. Then you get mixed ratios right 1 Quote
Mouseketeer Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Ofsted may as well just adopt the "no comment" reply instead of giving mixed advice, I understood we had to work to youngest ratio if mixed ( no idea why), but then I thought maximum reg numbers were flexible now dependant on staffing and floor space but my EYA says not (and I don't know why I thought that either ....losing the plot I think) Quote
woodlands1997 Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Mouseketeer your eya is surely wrong! You are no longer registered for a particular amount of children, it is down to space and staff!!?? Cait that octopus theory goes with mine then - you could have one 2 year and six 3 year olds?? Megamum when was your letter from ofsted about ratios from? 1 Quote
Mouseketeer Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 That was my thinking too woodlands, had a visit from our new (though not entirely new just change of areas) EYA last week, I was asked how many I was registered for, when I replied I can take x amount of 3 yr olds or 2 yr olds she didn't know what I was talking about and asked again what was on my ofsted cert, I told her 30 as we don't have a new one, and she said well that's your maximum then, she didn't want to hear my "but the revised framework says I have to work it out" as she scribbled on her pad .....I'd love to know what she actually wrote ssssoooooo when you are ofsteded now ( those who have been) did you get new certs with registered number removed ? Quote
Cait Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 No, the certificates don't give a registered number, you use the framework in the code of practice. 1 Quote
Mouseketeer Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Thanks Cait, I didn't want to state my case too much in case I had missinterpreted it, and I think she was already writing 'incompetent' lol Quote
woodlands1997 Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Surprised you haven't got a new certificate? They automatically sent one out to us when it changed! Quote
Mouseketeer Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 I'll chase that up woodlands , hadn't realised they had..thanks Quote
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