SEND - funding for staff

[Guest]

HI

Just wondered what others do. I am manager of packaway setting (2 staff up to 16 children).

Got a little boy that will be staying with us in the mornings and then starting to do school nursery 3 afternoons starting in Jan. He used to claim 15 hrs Nursery grant with us so we got 7.5 hrs/wk funded support for 1:1 (highest number of children in at the moment is 12 on one day). Now his funding is claimed by school our 1:1 funding has been cut to 3 hrs/wk, however the numbers of our children are to go up to 12-16 per day.

Given that we are packaway and there is only 2 of us I am not sure how we are going to manage (one of us has to tidy whilst other does storytime etc). Plus, we have had inquiries about another child with SEN to start after Easter. If he gets SEND support funding the maximum is 7.5 hrs /wk (1.5 hrs /day so not all the session) so potentially 2 staff to have 16 children with 2 with SEN (both mobility issues/ development issues for both).

Any ideas?? Do other LEAs have funding issues? My committee is school and already staff costs are an issue for them.

I just feel its not fair on all children and the staff! Feeling frustrated!

[diesel10]

Can't believe you have 2 staff for 16 children. What happens when one Ill ,wet themselves. Presume you are on a school site and can call in back up.

 

To me it would depend what issues the child has, if they are going to bash everyone in the room or wheelchair user / feeding tube I would be saying no unless one to one supplied by someone. Why does the parent need extra hours? If they could mostly cope alone, I would say yes.

Otherwise it is not fair on the child, other children and staff.

[Guest]

Thats funding for you! Think there is someone else on here with 2 staff in packaway setting. Its just the way it goes unfortunately. We are not on school site but very close to it. We just have to risk assess everything, staff are always within shouting distance of each other, children kept all together etc. OFSTED inspector was ok with it. I do have concerns about having two children with SEND. Just annoying because as soon as these children go into school they get 1;1 straight away, but suppose it has to come out of their budget! Low numbers of children mean the pre-school has been losing money but now numbers are rising. If we could go over the 16 mark then we could get extra staff in but then recruiting for the odd day is another nightmare (as is recruiting to do 1:1 support).

[Foreveryoung]

For us it could be we can not do/fund this now but will have to do/get x,y,z in place to offer the place but it's tricky grounds. Luckily we have never had to do this and if we did have to our LA are strict on what we can do or say, our LA funding is non existent we get nothing at all for any of our sen children even when we had a child who was wheelchair bound and required intense support. I have run many places as yours with only 2 staff and never had an issue. Could you not have the child start in Easter on opposite sessions to your current child therefore you are offering care but in a way you may be able to manage? it sounds like a difficult situation x

[Fredbear]

Now this is an interesting situation. As I'm sure parents can now choose how money for Sen children is used, including obtaining resources or professionals from outside the area.

Have you been in touch with your area Senco, as it seems ridiculous to expect you to work with such tight staffing.

[Foreveryoung]

Just re looked at my post I didn't mean I've never had a problem with having 2 staff with sen children I meant in general it's not been a problem

[Guest]

For us it could be we can not do/fund this now but will have to do/get x,y,z in place to offer the place but it's tricky grounds. Luckily we have never had to do this and if we did have to our LA are strict on what we can do or say, our LA funding is non existent we get nothing at all for any of our sen children even when we had a child who was wheelchair bound and required intense support. I have run many places as yours with only 2 staff and never had an issue. Could you not have the child start in Easter on opposite sessions to your current child therefore you are offering care but in a way you may be able to manage? it sounds like a difficult situation x

We are only open mornings if 20 hrs (incl lunch club)so couldn't do different days as both want 15 hrs.

[Guest]

Now this is an interesting situation. As I'm sure parents can now choose how money for Sen children is used, including obtaining resources or professionals from outside the area.

Have you been in touch with your area Senco, as it seems ridiculous to expect you to work with such tight staffing.

This is if they have ehc which they do not have..yet maybe where it could go. Got meet with area senco next month.thing is if money isn't there to pay for the staff what can we do?

[lashes2508]

As a preschool we can apply to the preschool allocations panel to request more funding to assist with supporting a child with SEND , we then have to complete a termly p & o form ( provisions and outcomes) to show how that funding has been used and the support it and we have provided and the benefits of it . Do these children have a specialist preschool teacher involved as she may help you with this or as previously said speak to your area SENCO

[Vogue]

You're right, it's not fair but your LA rep or local area SENCO really could help. Our LA rep recently helped us to secure funding for 10 hours per week for a little boy at our setting - he needs 1:1 support at all times. We discussed it with the parents and they were happy to agree that it was in his and everyone else's best interest for him to only attend for his funded hours so he does 9-11, 5 days a week.

Mind you, it did take us nearly a term to get to this stage - that wouldn't be possible with just two of you. I really hope your area SENCO can sort something out for you.

[finleysmaid]

trying to get my head round your funding question!

so this little chap is now doing 15 hours with you and 9 hours with school?

he will only be able to claim for 15 hours nef and school get priority on this so they will get 9 hours and you will have to charge for 3 sessions (at whatever rate you usually do)

the school should in theory be supplying the 1-1 out of their send budget as it is below the 16 hour limit.

I am surprised either setting is getting send money unless this chap is ehcp/statemented?

As to only two of you in a setting...I'm not sure why people have an issue with this...after all childminders only have one!

How do you support him at the moment? does he NEED 1-1 all the time? If you can quantify why you need the money and what you use it for then you could try to argue for his needs, you may then be able to employ another person to cover either his needs or indeed his and the other childs needs although i would never do this i tend to use my 'known' staff to support 1-1 and the extra person to support the other children.

I think we have to get away from this idea that children with send come with extra money.....why do we need it and what are we going to use it for? if you are using it to buy resources or staff then fine but otherwise what's it for?

[alechunter]

Like Lashes we also can get funding for SEND children as she described. But if a parent decides to put their child into a school nursery as well as attending preschool then the school will not spilt funding with us and they take it all. If parent still want their child to come to us as well then they have to pay full cost of session. This applies to any child. I believe the whole funding issue for SEND children is being changed from April 2015 and under the new Code of Practice it is now 'enhanced adult support' not 1:1. I think this may be when parents gets budgets to spend on their child's education.

[Upsy Daisy]

My advice would be to apply for an EHC Plan immediately if he needs full time one to one support. The assessment process would turn the spotlight on how his needs can be met in your setting and funding may suddenly become available even if he doesn't get a plan.