Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Dear all, I have just had an advisor in -after revising our plans and children's profiles I showed her my planning, the children's files and how we observe - "mm she said and mulled it over again - too much information" "Can not see where the children fit into the plan" where are the evaluations? I know we have to have a child's interest at heart of our planning I see this however we have 36 children on a daily basis with 36ish different ideas how are we going to cope. hairdressing diggers and trucks police and firepeople superheros bubbles and water planting. Do we add it to the continious planning? do we do a medium topic plan for each senaro? do we add children's names to plans (i thought this was not allowed) We are a sessional nursery school operating in a hall we have to pack the whole nursery away by 1pm the children leave at 12.30pm - this includes displays tables and chairs and activities, we start off with an empty hall and leave a clean empty hall. having meetings at the end of each day is hard as staff go onto other work. do you display plans on the display board or are they in a folder are they hand written or typed neatly? do you keep plans? do you observe and keep written notes of children's journeys? in a dilema - panic mode at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeany Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) We plan for each child their initials are on the plans, so it clearly shows that we have planned different activities for different children. All staff complete plans as we go, so each staff members key children are all included. do you display plans on the display board or are they in a folder are they hand written or typed neatly? We display plans on a board so they are easy to access. The planning sheet is printed but we write the plans on them. do you keep plans? We file all old plans in an arch file. do you observe and keep written notes of children's journeys? Yes we do snapshot obs as we go on sticker sheets that are then just stuck in LJ. Edited October 13, 2012 by Jeany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 You,re not alone IYAH, have been trawling for planning formats on here this morning, we have an 'interests shown sheet' up during week to inform following weeks plan (some things do happen immediately or later in that day if able) but staff are now concerned that all the interests are coming from same children....which was always going to be the case (I'm sure most of you.....I hope are finding this) we also have next steps on planning for individual children plus add who else would benefit from /enjoy the same activity /resource, but we have moved away from naming who should be observed each week (staff wanted this more flexible....but now don't like it as they are missing some key children on planning - even though I gave them an ob tracker to put in their own folders so they could record who/when ob was done and see who needed one????) added CoEL's but none of them write in it, so now removing it as i hate seeing boxes that have been left empty.......like you going round in circles and feeling like back to square one with planning again when I thought it seemed to be doing its job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Thanks so far - I am so happy I am not the only one going around in circles! I have group colours - do you think that each key worker should write out activities for her/his key children within the continuious planning using her colour codes Jeany do you mind sharing your plans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 personally i think we are over thinking the interest angle.....i tend to think of it in more global terms in most circumstances. So looking at your list you could interpret it as 4 groups interested in role play and two in sensory activities. (which makes planning for them MUCH easier). It could be of course that your superhero (for example)group are obsessed in which case it may be a way in to their learning and teaching. The interest issue is about engaging children in what they like doing...rather than setting an adult led plan that insists they learn about things they are not interested in ...only my opinion of course! If you look at this more global trend then you find groups of children wanting to do the same types of activities rather than basing it on 1 or 2 individuals 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeany Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Plans are all on p.c at work. I agree with the above though. My plans will include for example......... AC spends lots of time in the small world area playing with cars. Obs show he doesn't access mark making. Activity cars, paint and paper to encourage mark making. We may also have a child BD that shows signs of a rotation schema so their initials may also be added. So for Mondays Mark Making Column(on plans) it would have Cars and paint AC BD 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 (edited) I do agree with you finleysmaid........But if we don't set it how do we know they're not interested in it. ? (like previous themes/topics we used to plan too....seems so much of that is missed now) and then you have to move on and ask why do we plan around festivals/events when none of them have shown an interest in them because they don't have any awareness of them existing because we're not planning for them .....because they have no interest in them....oh crumbs I have got my negative head on today......I think at the bottom of it is I can't think about it all myself all the time I need the staff to be getting it Crossed posts...that's how I see it......linking what they like to do to what they need to do..how hard can than be......aarrrgggghhhhhhhh Edited October 13, 2012 by mouse63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Hi Ifyourehappy - did your advisor give you any examples of what she would actually like to see? I completely agree with finsleysmaid - we really can 'over think' this........ For my part - I have Continuous Provision Plans - which show that provide an Enabling Environment.......I have a very loose weekly plan and I evaluate daily.........I place more importance on evaluation than planning - but hey who's to say that is the 'right' way - it's just 'my' way! :1b I do use colour coded initials on both planning (not so much) and on evaluations (always)........ Plans + evaluations are kept in a file - they are 'neatly typed up' - but that's just because that's the way I like to present them - hand written plans and evaluations would be no less 'valuable' :1b I think having a sound knowledge of your children's interests, needs and learning styles is very important - but much of that is just stored in my head :blink: I don't think we should really feel the need to 'write down' every single 'thing' - this just takes us away from what we really should be doing - interacting with the children :1b Just looking at your list of varying interests again - think finsleymaid has already answered how to get round that :1b I would just add - books, books and more books - i.e. it may not be practical to carry out a 'planting' activity every week - but there are a zillion books that you could share with the child who is interested in planting........ Remember too that one activity can provide many different opportunities e.g. one day this week my children were picking up 'compare bears' with 'tongs' (big plastic tweezers) and placing them into egg boxes - so AC needed this for counting, BD needs some fine motor work, CE some colour recognition/matching, DF some problem solving, EZ just loves bears(!) - all covered in one activity :1b Just try and keep in mind what you are trying to achieve - an environment where children thrive, they are happy and making good progress - that's it for me - not some 'pretty planning system' :blink: :1b I really hope this helps - sometimes I read back my responses and think - why should anyone care what you think :blink: :lol: 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Mouse ...what do you think they are missing out on? at the end of the day the curriculum is the same for all of them, they have to complete the same elg's...it doesn't matter what the journey to get there is!....and i loathe activities that are planned because the teacher thinks they ought to do them! minibeasts is one that seems to come up in summer year after year...does that mean you don't do anything about minibeasts the rest of the year? how are you going to teach about the changes of the season in autumn when children can't see the effects of the rest of the year. The emphasis should be on what the children are learning not the topic of the moment! I have spoken about my planning for festivals before...if it is relevant to the families in my setting and the children celebrate it then fine if not i don't ...i have a very multicultural setting so choice is not limited though! but i don't do diwali for the sake of doing it ....i have no Hindu children so that's fine.....however i have lots of Muslim children and many of them are religious so this is discussed often. Birthdays however are an enduring topic that gets discussed often! And if i hear again that children have made diwali lamps for diwali again i think i will scream! How many of your Hindi families do this ...have you asked them????? and how many times in a childs life do they need to repeat this 'activity' do they do it in nursery/reception/year 1,2,3,4, etc etc etc!!!!...hardly choice in my opinion and not extending the child learning at all. Sorry for the rant this is not meant for you personally ...MIL coming and i'm trying to avoid cleaning the whole house....perhaps i'll just go and walk the dog first. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Just wantd to add when i say it doesn't matter about the journey...i mean it should be based on their needs not ours...if that makes sense! (that's the trouble with writing things down it sometimes sounds wrong :blink: :rolleyes: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Hi the advisor said to add initials to the plans as although we are setting up the activities for the children - she didn't think we were planning for them - even though I reasured her this was the case. She also said we will need to evaluate on a daily basis - which we do for our focus activities and this shows children's next steps (our focus groups are with the key worker) I know we know and understand - I know it is not about the systems in place - and have documentation - I too believe it is how children thrive in the setting and want to return the following day to enjoy and achieve - that is the true essence of well being and children achieving. thank you for sharing and I do acknowledge what you are saying a little calmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 No offence taken finleysmaid.......yes we have done mini beasts (as an example) because a few children were interested in a caterpillar we found and not because staff thought they should......then a couple of weeks later it's back on planning sheet again by someone and I'm thinking but we just spent the week before last covering lots of lovely things for this interest......and the thought bubble in my head is screaming "weren't you bl**dy well here"..........sorrryyyyyyyyyyy and I ant even blame the MIL ;-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 ................ smile sweetly at the advisor, nod, add in a few erm....arhhh, oh yes hmm I see, etc And then just get on with what suits you and your setting :1b We do very little writing about anything now, but I would ask advisor to point at a child - and either myself or the key person can, and will tell you 'where they are at, and where they are going' . Most evaluations of settings are done verbally at the end of sessions (one hall, pack-away) and things might get written if important enough (or if we have time!!)............. We have a planning/enhancement sheet which is always out and is added to throughout the session, all staff add to as things are observed. Sometimes intials are used, sometimes it's its just a genral interest for example somethings been out that lots of children have shown interest in. Each 'special book' shows individual development progress etc. When I/we get paid the same respect/ payscale as teaching staff in maintained settings. (or even the same pay as an 'advisor' ) Then I'll start doing more indepth planning :1b xx xxxx 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredbear Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Just be careful with that Louby Lou as Ofsted pointed out quite recently, we may well know our children inside out, but if you won the Lottery tomorrow and left who else would if it is not evidenced somehow. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Just be careful with that Louby Lou as Ofsted pointed out quite recently, we may well know our children inside out, but if you won the Lottery tomorrow and left who else would if it is not evidenced somehow. . Luckily we don't have a work syndicate!!! ::1a ::1a Seriously though on speaking with an ofsted inspector last week, they said they are placing more emphasis on staff knowledge of child rather than paperwork. (I think this is where the revised EYFS less paperwork kicks in) We do have the children's learning journey books which have evidence in, and we fill in a development summary each term which highlights any gaps. Our planning is just very simple now, and because of this all staff are happy to contribute. Which makes me :1b. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 How do you do it louby loo ? Do you have a sheet you could add ? I think we,re trying to get too much detail on ours. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 How do you do it louby loo ? Do you have a sheet you could add ? I think we,re trying to get too much detail on ours. Thanks No sheet really as it would depend on your setting. So, just look at each 'area/zone' you have - we are a one hall sessional pack-away. We used to have a grid with things like, constuction, maths, - we had about 18 boxes on it at one point when we inlcuded circle time ect! On our grid we now have- Three main 'carpeted areas' - so for example this may have - 1 hairdressers, 2 small world pirates, 3 duplo Mark-making area - this might have notebooks and telephones added to it. (we have a free access trolley- but often they need a starting point :1b Messy art - We each take turns in providing an adult led messy activity- printing, stamping, bubble painting etc... (again children do need to actually see/try things before they can meaningfully 'self select' creative art experience's for themselves :1b , and again they have a free access trolley) Then we have a big box that just says 'key-person' - this is the important one and all staff write down specific things that are need setting up for the session, so maybe- scissors cutting for child a, certain puzzle for child b, etc etc. We just make sure at the end of set-up that we have something from each area of leaning out. We have continuous provision which covers most things, and things might change as soon as the children arrive anyway!!! I would like to add- mouse63, (pretty sure it was yours) that we tried your CoL sheet that you uploaded, but like you found staff didn't really use the boxes. However we now use the statements from your boxes as a starting point to describe photos directly into the LJs . Not really explained that well- but the long and short of it is - we use your format as a crib sheet! Staff love, love, love it ::1a (I enlarged the statements and laminated them one copy each). xx 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 wow what a can of worms has been opened here! Planning is so different in every setting I have been in or visited over the years. The nursery I work in is one of nine, and we all plan differently. Considering we all follow the same EYFS it always amazes me how there is no one set planning format created by the powers up there for us all to follow. I'm sure it was mentioned above but one of the biggest problems with planning is having all staff on the same wave length and understanding it fully as it cant be a one man job. I have a battle every week with my staff about what the interests for the week have been and what should be covered the following week.I like the idea mentioned earlier about a sheet to write down interests from the week to supplement the following weeks planning, so think I will try this out and get the girls motivated and thinking about what they are doing. We use activity sheets but my advisor has never mentioned to me about putting initials on to each activity - think i'd best start that one, makes so much sense, giving purpose to it all. We use a weekly adult-led activity sheet, which previously was an activity for each day. This year I have changed it and numbered the activities allowing the key carers in the room to follow the activities with their groups how they see suitable for their children. we all evaluate in our own group folders each activity which allows us to make sure all children are being observed at some point in the week and then share the evaluations on the main sheet. I dont think there is a right/wrong way to plan, if it suits your setting and you can justify why you do it they way you do then you should be ok. I agree and disagee with the not 'covering' topics for the sake of covering them. I am a bit 'old-skool' and feel certain topics fit in well at certain times of year etc, but I experienced the 'new-skool' way a couple of weeks ago when a child brought in from home a butterfly farm which led to us doing a week about mini beasts and the hungry caterpillar in late september. I wasnt so sure about it all but the children were interested for the whole week (even my SEN children who have little concentration), which is all that matters and so long as they are learning I suppose does it matter what the topic is??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredbear Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Well our inspector definetly wanted to see more assessments/evidence in the LJ's of the tracked children( one of which had only been with us 3 weeks) and even though she commented our highly the staff knew our children from discussions ( singing from the same hymn sheet phrase springs to mind yet again) with the inspectors. I would just do what fits best for your setting and most importantly your children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Well our inspector definetly wanted to see more assessments/evidence in the LJ's of the tracked children( one of which had only been with us 3 weeks) and even though she commented our highly the staff knew our children from discussions ( singing from the same hymn sheet phrase springs to mind yet again) with the inspectors. I would just do what fits best for your setting and most importantly your children. Gosh! - was that since Sept 12? Was told we need to 'know' our children, and not be so focused on paperwork..... We have the LJ + summary sheets though. They also said they'd had to sit a 2.5 exam on the revised EYFS and that many failed :mellow: So I was hoping for a better expection process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredbear Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Oh crumbs that's not great is it. But I suppose like us they are also having to get to grips with it too. After numerous inspections over many years I do just take whatever comes on the chin and carry on doing fantastic work with our wonderful children and families.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredbear Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Sorry yes third week in September 2012 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 mmmm i dont add names to planning children can all access our enhanced environments, all my staff plan individually for thei key children on a weekly basis following obs on their current interests we dont write evaluations, i am a pack away so paperwork kept to a minimum i have lever arch file that planning is kept in and boards that come out of the cupboard with info on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Sorry yes third week in September 2012 . ....... :huh: :angry: ... and I was hoping things were looking up. At our inspection last year it was so obvious she hadn't read our SEF, she then told us we needed to keep it updated!! Added to that she kept questioning my qualifications - saying her's were lower than mine and that couldn't be right!! I felt like say ' well that's not really my fault is it?' I just showed her the print out from the then CWDC (glad I had them, only did it as one staff had an old NNEB and she [staff] was convinced it wasn't any good- so I printed of everyone's while I was at it ) xxx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green hippo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 What is a CoL sheet? Continuation of Learning? Would like to see it! Could you add a link? Thanks, Green Hippo x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouseketeer Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Characteristics of effective learning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafa Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Just be careful with that Louby Lou as Ofsted pointed out quite recently, we may well know our children inside out, but if you won the Lottery tomorrow and left who else would if it is not evidenced somehow. . And would the sky fall down? Makes me so cross 'listening' to us all frantically trying to dot all the i's and cross all the t's as though someones life is threatened if we fail to get it right!! We seem to be the only workforce who are monitored so critically and live in fear of all our hardwork being being dismissed by the shake of a head and the swipe of a pen from an advisor or worse Mrs O! With many of us working out of a cupboard for goodness sake!! No, the sky will not fall. Yes,, continue to do our best and children will learn, thrive and have fun. This paperchase gets more and more ridiculous. IF there is a RIGHT way to do this job then as someone else said on this thread, there should be ONE format for all! Produce it .......and let us get on with our job, for the kids sake if nothing else! Rant over.... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green hippo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Of course! Thanks mouse63! x 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 With many of us working out of a cupboard for goodness sake!! Well said! All if it. but especially like that bit! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sn0wdr0p Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Just found rafa's comments again I knew I had seen them somewhere. Just made some similar comments on the inspections thread following my inspection on Friday and I agree totally with all of them even though it went well and I am happy with the result. Just one simple planning form Ofsted please would make all or lives so much easier and stop us sitting up till all hours on this forum - oh no, that would mean I would have no friends. (I laugh at my 20 year old who keeps telling me about the 100s of friends he has on facebook-never used it myself) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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