mps09 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Can anybody offer some words of wisdom (again!) for me? We have a child attending pre-school who is not just over 4. She has been coming for 18 months now and is the most charming, clever, interested child you would wish to meet. Would come bounding into the classroom every day with a smile and news, etc. However, since we came back after the Easter she has cried every day when mum leaves, (nothing happened at home as far as we have been told), to the point where she becomes hysterical.... mum is really worried, and says that whenever she mentions pre-school or any of the children there her daughter starts crying and says she doesn't want to come. Nothing has happened at pre-school that might have started this - and I'm at a loss to know how to advise. We've tried suggesting that mum doesn't come in and does a quick handover at the door - but this just makes it worse! It is so sad to see any child distressed but for this child it is quite upsetting because she just isn't the kind of child to get upset easily. I tried suggesting that it might be an attention thing (mum had a baby in October so not that recent but might be related....) but still not sure how to support mum as much as the child - who is fine after about 15 minutes. Any ideas? Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Could be a thousand and one things. However I would like to ask if any of her best friends left at the end of last term? The behaviour you describe reminds me of a little boy whose circle of friends left to go to 'big school' and he felt abandoned, and babyish because they were all at school and he was left at nursery. It was the first time I'd ever thought of transitions from the perspective of the child left behind, but it was a valuable lesson and one I've never forgotten! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mps09 Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 Could be a thousand and one things. However I would like to ask if any of her best friends left at the end of last term? The behaviour you describe reminds me of a little boy whose circle of friends left to go to 'big school' and he felt abandoned, and babyish because they were all at school and he was left at nursery. It was the first time I'd ever thought of transitions from the perspective of the child left behind, but it was a valuable lesson and one I've never forgotten! Hi HappyMax, There haven't been any changes at pre-school, no-one's left - but it is an interesting thought! MPS09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 There haven't been any changes at pre-school, no-one's left - but it is an interesting thought! Maybe from this little girl's perspective, something has? Or maybe there is something else worrying her that she either can't name or just doesn't know how to talk about? Sometimes children get upset over the smallest thing that parents wouldn't even consider were important. Do you manage to get her settled eventually, and if so what is she like for the rest of the morning? Can you engage her in some 'emotions' related activities so that she has opportunities to discuss how she's feeling whilst not being put under any pressure to talk about what's making her unhappy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spiral Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Sounds awful. We had this a while ago and the staff all struggled as our heart strings were hurting. Children can develop smaller situations further and maybe something did happen either with yourselves or the parents that doesn't seem much, but could have grown in the child's mind. we had a child who went on to their parent about another child bullying them and picking on them - checked it all out and the other child wasn't even in at the same time as their 'bully', however, they had picked up on a conversation that their parents had at the park and had placed the name to another child's face. There is always the concern that something may have happened at home/out of your setting that has caused separation anxiety - could there be a safeguarding concern? Could the key person maybe help the child by taking a photo of mum and popping it into the child's learning journey? Maybe they could phone mum and have a further chat or even see if the child wants to have the option of having a shorter session/phoning mum half way through the session to say hello? Sorry, thinking off the top of my head and I'm not sure this reads ok. Take care, hope it improves, Spiral x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mps09 Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 She settles well after the initial 'blip' but it is still so hard..... especially after mum told her that she would pick her up later if she was still upset! And I know that doesn't help! She is quite an articulate little girl but just says that she misses her mummy! I think a photograph - and a phone call might help. Thank you guys!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 If it is simply a case of missing mum, then I've seen lots of creative suggestions (mainly on here) about how to maintain the link between the child in the setting and mum at home/work etc. Anything from leaving mum's purse behind, to making a little story book showing what the child has been doing for mum to see when she returns, or maybe painting or drawing a special picture of how happy the child will be when mum collects. In the past we've taken photographs of the child doing something lovely and emailing it or texting it or in encouraging the child to phone home. Equally we've had children who have found it difficult to settle, but have eventually joined in and seemed settled. Only for a practitioner to mention mum and to find the child crumbling all over again. I guess there are as many 'tips' as there are children! Good luck with finding the key to yours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mps09 Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 All tips gratefully received! and I will be trying these out - mum is quite 'on side' too so I know she'll help. Just want to make sure that we don't go from one thing to another and give her lots of attention for this behaviour.... Thanks again. x x x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Just want to make sure that we don't go from one thing to another and give her lots of attention for this behaviour.... This is a distinct possibility, so it does need careful handling. Do you have an LA adviser who is sufficiently knowledgeable about these kinds of matters? I know just the person in my Authority who I would ask about issues such as these - every LA should have one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mps09 Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 I've never thought of asking our advisor about individual children! Will give her a try... Thank you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 I've never thought of asking our advisor about individual children! With parental permission, of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 is she going to school in september? does she know that? I have several children at the moment who are very aware that things are changing because the parents are constsntly talking about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pamgreen Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 This happened many years ago at our nursery. A previously settled child became very upset. In the end we found out the family dog had died mum was so worried about her older child missing the dog and forgot about the impact on her younger child. Has anything like this happened to this little girl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panders Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Would a home visit make any difference? You could discuss quietly with her and mum what the problem is and come up with a strategy together. It is horrid when they become upset like this so far into their time with us, brings us all down. I had one little girl who was like this from the beginning until she left, the odd day she would come in without a problem but she did just miss mummy. That is all she could say. She didn't have a particular best buddy at nursery which I always felt was a shame as this may have made a difference. Wishing you well with this one, hope you solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubblejack Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Could the child start a friendship with a child and invite them back to their house.If mum is on your side I am sure she might nurture this idea. We have had this problem with pre-school age children over the years and have found that parents are sometimes (understandably )very reluctant to discuss personal details. A few years later we often learn things about the family circumstances and then the behaviour of the child becomes clearer. I do hope you sort it out because its very upsetting for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 is she going to school in september? does she know that? I have several children at the moment who are very aware that things are changing because the parents are constsntly talking about it! This would be my first thought too. Sometimes, preparation is not the best way forward. A new baby has already "disturbed" this child's home life and the changing demands of the baby and her mothers interaction with her together or even without talk of change ie going to school may just be too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Had similar thoughts about the proposed move to school... along with the break at Easter... must have been lots of fun to stay at home with a baby that is now interacting and a sudden realisation of what does happen when she is not there.. hence not wanting to miss anything happening at home - ? lots of people around during the break making a lot of fuss and interaction with the children... no real solution other than to keep the routine as normal as possible.. try a few comforter tricks like purse, keys, photo etc. and as you have said not to go the other way with attention in the setting.. this may also be part of it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I was also going to say that about getting ready for school. We have had this a few times and the parents have always said that nothing has changed. They haven't considered the effect talking about new school is having at all until it was pointed out. I know in my area school places were allocated just at the start of the Easter holidays so it is something we are on the look out for at the moment. To pick up on Inge's comments too I have also experienced this where the older child seemed oblivious to the baby's arrival and very happy to be in preschool for the first few months. It was only when the baby started doing things that the child showed any upset and this was mainly around the fact the older child felt they were missing out because they were at preschool - if that makes sense! As for tips - one of our little ones currently has a photo keyring with a picture of mum in it. Mum clips this to his belt loop on his trousers or onto a zip pull so it's always handy but not intrusive in his play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think all my initial thoughts have been covered here too. The problem is that what may seem insignificant to an adult can have a huge impact on a child. And at that age they may not even recognise or be able to articulate what they are feeling and why. My eldest daughter went into playgroup happily from day 1 and then suddenly when her brother was about 6 months old I had her crying and clinging to me for dear life when I tried to leave her. I suspect that like Inge suggested, she was worried about what she was missing out on even though she loved playgroup. Also the whole preparation for school does become a huge issue in many households and can lead to many new worries and uncertainties. My advice would echo what others have said - react in a sympathetic and calm manner but try to carry on in as normal way as much as possible so as not to give undue attention to the behaviour. Hopefully within a couple of weeks it will have settled again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 is she going to school in september? does she know that? I have several children at the moment who are very aware that things are changing because the parents are constsntly talking about it! This was my immediate thought too.........if I could get just one message across to parents it would be 'please don't go on and on about 'big school' - it's such a long way off yet and the constant talking about it and how wonderful (or not) it's going to be is so unsettling'...........we always have a few 'problems' in this term........ Fantastic advise from everyone already........good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mps09 Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 Thank you so much for all your replies.... I'm going to have a chat with mum and see if anything has happened at home, or if there are discussions taking place that might not be helping! Lots to think about!! I can copy with those 'habitual' criers but I'm finding this one really hard But thanks again MPS09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Hi Some good advice given here and some we followed ourselves quite recently as we had exactly the same situation happen to us. Another thing we were told to do was to keep written notes of how she was at pre-school every time she came in, who droppped her off etc etc. This was in regard to uncertainty of a possible emerging safeguarding issue to the fact that it is a sudden change in behaviour and although we were told by parents there was nothing going on at home. In fact it took until last week for the child to go back to her normal chatty self with absolutely no explaination why. However should something come out later we have confidential notes to refer back to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 A helpful thought from Marley there with regard to the noting who drops off, collects, who else is in, etc. Even without a safeguarding cconcern we have previously found that it has helped to highlight the smallest of changes which has been the underlying cause of the upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panders Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 However, since we came back after the Easter she has cried every day when mum leaves, (nothing happened at home as far as we have been told), to the point where she becomes hysterical.... mum is really worried, and says that whenever she mentions pre-school or any of the children there her daughter starts crying and says she doesn't want to come. Whilst the mum in one of our cases had not had a baby in the recent past, we did have a similar incident a few years ago after Christmas I seem to recall. In the end, we all put it down to the fact that this was the first real time this little girl could remember and take on board what a great time she had had with her family over this holiday period. It did stop a few weeks later, but was upsetting at the time because, as you have said the little girl was so settled previously. Can never tell what sparks off their imagination either, maybe she watched a film or something at Easter which has filled her with dread about separating from mum. I am sure with your understanding and guidance she will get through this upsetting time in her life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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