Please Come And Give Me A Teacher's Perspective On This

[Guest]

Upsy Daisy I'm so sorry to hear what is happening to you and your daughter You always seem one of the most sensible and level headed people on here, full of useful advice for everyone. I am so worried that these teachers seem to be tainting your view of the profession.

 

I half expected to get a very different point of view on FSF from the one I've had from other parents of children with SEN. I was prepared to adjust my thinking if I was asking too much.

 

How on earth are they behaving that this possibly have become your view of teachers? It worries me not only for your daughter but for every other child in your daughter's school. No reasonable teacher should be acting this way and the fact that you could even begin to think that all teachers might be like this makes me incredibly concerned about the culture among the teachers in your daughter's school. You seem to be starting to believe that it is the 'norm' to be treated this way and I have to say that nothing could be further from the truth! What on earth are these teachers and their head thinking to not even say straight away 'ok she can wear trousers'? I assure you not all teachers or schools act in the way her current school is doing, personally I wouldn't even have needed the parental involement just the child's request to wear trousers would have been enough and I certainly would have never put any parent in a position where they were turned into the bad guy who had to try and get their child to comply. If you are starting to believe that it is you rather than them who needs to readjust their thinking, just imagine what your daughter is going through being in that environment day after day with people who don't believe she has additional needs and are unwilling to be supportive of her. It makes me incredibly angry to think how they are treating her when I know that I fight and fight to get children with far fewer problems than her the support and recognition they need from outside agencies (we believe in the issues in school but of course there's no funding for CAHMS support or anything else anymore - you're lucky to have them on your daughter's case).

 

I'm also worried that you are hopeful that a diagnosis will change everything, because looking at this realistically it might not. Even if your daughter gets a diagnosis and funding for TA support if the school don't believe she really needs it it is their right to deploy this funding however they wish (so she might still end up with nothing). Teachers (and I mean a minority here) are still more than capable of scoffing at a professional diagnosis if they feel they are in the right (to be perfectly honest I have a boy in my class with asthma who I give an inhaler to every lunchtime who I consider to be about as asthmatic as me - ie. not at all! I still give him the inhaler though because I know I'm not a doctor.)

 

All this makes me think are you absolutely sure this school is the right place for your daughter to be? I know a change of school would probably be a huge stress to her judging by what you have told us, but would that stress be counterbalanced by the better provision and understanding she would get from a different school with different teachers?

 

I do feel this may have come off more as a rant than actually being supportive but I do really mean it to be supportive. I get really angry when children's needs aren't being met in this way and personally I'd love to march into your daughter's school right now and give them all a good shake up! Please please please though don't ever think it's you and don't ever think that all teachers would take the same view that her teachers are. We never would! Stay strong and good luck tomorrow with the head!

[Guest]

I have only just read this thread and as a Reception teacher feel really sad that the teacher and school have acted in this way - have they forgotten about "The unique child?" I work in a class with some very challenging children who are on their way to or already have statements for behaviour or emotional difficulties and I feel that it is our job to help children to feel part of the class not singled out or different from their peers. To suggest that your daughter might not be able to be in the play because she is uncomfortable about the costume in terrible and completely overlooking her needs. I would like to echo Kariana in saying that not every teacher and school would have this attitude and that I can speak for all the staff in my primary school in saying we would be shocked at this. Good luck and hope it all goes well for you

emsxx

[Rea]

Why not print off the replies on here, if nobody minds, and take them with you. You might not need to refer to them but it might help knowing you have them in your pocket. Hope tomorrow goes well x

[louby loo]

Upsy Daisy,

I don't do confrontation easily-

But over the years I found if I take a list complete with bullet points and a pen with me this helps me. I'm not afraid of the other person seeing it either! In this case I might even do as rea suggests and print of some off the replies here as back-up of you views/thoughts.

I feel if I have everything written in front of me - If I get flustered(upset!) and forget things, the list draws me back in.

 

Once I have a list I find that if we are 'going round in circles' on one point I then have the confidence to mark/highlight this point and clearly say 'we're going nowhere on this, so lets move onto to next point and come back to this later'

Somehow I find this method helps me take more control over the meeting. I suppose really it just having a clear agenda for the meeting and sticking to certain points only.

 

Hope all goes well for you xxxxxxx

[Guest]

Sorry if this has already been said, but aside from the immediate 'problem' (easily solved as far as I am concerned - why does she even have to wear a dress/skirt?!) , the 'privileges' that you referrred to - surely these are just reasonable adjustments as part of inclusion?!?! Can't believe the school feel that she 'shouldn't have' these!!!

[Upsy Daisy]

It is a bit overwhelming to have so much support on here.

 

I started this thread because I don't always find it easy to see the other point of view, especially when it comes to school provision because I've spent so much of the last couple of years fighting the system. I just needed to hear that my thinking was reasonable and that's exactly what has happened.

 

I know that a diagnosis and a statement wouldn't suddenly solve all the problems but they could be passports to more appropriate provision when she moves to middle/high school which is when I expect her to find things harder. I'm really conscious that other schools may meet her needs more effectively but I need to know the outcome of the assessment process before I can make any judgements.

 

I will be printing off some of this thread and reminding myself of it before our meeting tomorrow and I've decided to use the agenda which I had written for the meeting with the teacher and the SENCo on Wednesday so that I am raising the issues which concern me too. I don't really understand what the point will be of meeting the head tomorrow and then the teacher and SENCo two days later to discuss the same thing.

 

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to write replies. I will report back to you all tomorrow.

[louby loo]

Will be thinking of you and hope it all goes well.

 

xxx

[Gezabel]

Sending you HUGE support vibes and have everything crossed that all goes well.

 

I have thought and thought of what to write in reply to your message and all I can say is that it makes me cry the very thought of your daughter being subjected to such treatment by professionals who should know better is just horrific beyond words. Of course as all parents know a child's pain is our pain too and I really feel for you.

 

I struggled for two years to get my son statmented and had no support from the teachers or head in school so I understand a little of what you are going through.

 

Your daughter is lucky to have you as her Mum and I hope the school see sense. I hope to hear that you daughter is allowed to be a boy and that she enjoys the production

[HappyMaz]

Your daughter is lucky to have you as her Mum

You and me both!

[sunnyday]

Upsy Daisy - just popped in before work to say good luck.......sending some positive vibes! x

[Guest]

Hi Upsy!!

 

With you in spirit, sending positive vibes and waiting to hear how your meeting goes.......

 

Nona x

[Upsy Daisy]

Thank you for the good wishes. They worked!

 

The class teacher is not happy because she doesn't believe it is the right thing to do but they have agreed to allow G to participate in the show in a boy's costume. I managed to be very clear that regardless of any of her other issues G has the right not to be expected to wear clothes in which she would feel humiliated.

 

The head kept returning to the fact that they have put lots of support in place for her but it doesn't seem to be helping and she chops and changes what she wants to do. I placed the ball firmly back in her court each time suggesting that they need to listen to what she is saying so they understand why she is asking for things and if she does ever take advantage it is the teacher's responsibility to deal with it. I also said that she may well be taking advantage now and then but that doesn't mean she doesn't need the support.

 

They are concerned that she doesn't understand the impact that her support might have on the rest of the class in terms of jealousy and taking up teacher time. I'm not sure what she wanted me to do about that.

 

The head has gone away with a list of jobs including getting the specialist autism teacher back in, contacting the ed psych for her report from the ob she did last year and calling a multi-agency meeting.

 

I couldn't have done this without the support I had on here over the weekend so thank you everyone.

[Guest]

Good for you Upsy Daisy! Sounds like you were confident enough to stand up for your daughter's rights So what if the class teacher is unhappy - she needs to remember that each individual child's welfare is her priority not anything else! Keep on pushing for what you feel she needs and don't let anyone tell you your instincts are wrong!

[sunnyday]

Woohoo! Well done you!

[Guest]

Well Done, Upsy Daisy!!

 

"The head kept returning to the fact that they have put lots of support in place for her but it doesn't seem to be helping and she chops and changes what she wants to do. I placed the ball firmly back in her court each time suggesting that they need to listen to what she is saying so they understand why she is asking for things and if she does ever take advantage it is the teacher's responsibility to deal with it. I also said that she may well be taking advantage now and then but that doesn't mean she doesn't need the support.

 

They are concerned that she doesn't understand the impact that her support might have on the rest of the class in terms of jealousy and taking up teacher time. I'm not sure what she wanted me to do about that."

 

If the school has such an issue with the support needed perhaps they should be working more closely with you to get G assessed and a funded support package put in place

 

As for G not understanding the impact on her classmates.... does she not have enough to worry about as to how she's going to get through the day? The rest of the class are more than likely picking up on the teacher's negative attitude and inability to relate to G which is far more detrimental - I don't get the impression that "inclusion" is much of a priority to the school and staff! They have much to learn from the specialist autism teacher, ed psych and the rest of the multi-agency team and I hope their lessons start soon

 

You can relax a little now and look forward to the production

 

Nona

[Rea]

Well done Upsy Daisy, hope you feel a bit better now its all in the open.

I find it really quite bizaare that the head thinks your daughter should be concerned for her classmates.

It amazes me how some heads and staff can be so unaware or so dismissive of inclusion. My friend found out after a long time of trying to get support for her son that the deputy had been allowing her 15 year old son to support him. Deputy even walked out of a meeting with the area SENco saying 'I've had enough of this'.

Lots of doodoo hit the fan with the LEA getting involved. Head was sacked (early retirement) deputy suspended but is now back. My friend took her both children out of the school to a fully inclusive one a few miles away.

Dont stand any nonesense, she's your daughter, you know her best and the school should be supporting you both not making you feel thankful for any concessions.

[Panders]

Great news that the HT appears to be grasping the situation at last! Let us hope that everyone from now on can support the school staff to do what is right by G.

 

There are some staff rooms I would love to be a fly on the wall of - and this staff room is one of them!

 

I do so hope that G can enjoy the play now in her own way and that you get a little respite from the struggle!

[HappyMaz]

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when you mentioned the CAF word!

 

Well done you!

[Guest]

They are concerned that she doesn't understand the impact that her support might have on the rest of the class in terms of jealousy and taking up teacher time.

 

What a very strange thing to be expecting of her! Of course it's important that children develop empathy, but surely the head teacher should be more concerned that the rest of the children in the class are (in her view) incapable of empathising with your daughter and making allowances for her additional needs. In my experience the other children in the class are more resilient, understanding and forgiving that anyone providing they are being taught in an environment which promotes this.

 

From what you have said your daughter seems to be doing her best to fit in socially and academically so what exactly is it that is taking up so much of the teacher's time and might be making the rest of the class jealous? I have never come across a well adjusted and well informed child who would be 'jealous' of another getting to sit at the end of the row in assembly everyday or getting to sit in a classroom at break or wear trousers in a school play. What a strange view this head has of children!

Edited February 7, 2011 by Guest

[Upsy Daisy]

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when you mentioned the CAF word!

 

I did detect a hint of panic!

 

Kariana there is a child who is jealous of G's 'privileges' but I think the solution would be to work with her to help her to understand equality and diversity rather than expect a child like G who has significant social imagination issues to anticipate her feelings. G does take up teacher time because she struggles with creative activities of any sort, particularly writing and needs to be scaffolded closely. The TA went and moved to Australia (how could she? ) after Christmas so they are without one until after half term which doesn't help.

 

I think things might move forward much more positively now, especially if my meeting with the class teacher and SENCo on Wed goes well.

 

On a good note I had a review for my older daughter in her mainstream autism base this morning too and it was a really positive experience. After 18 months of fighting they now understand her much better and are meeting her needs. She is doing really well academically is beginning to communicate with the staff. It's amazing what the right provision can achieve! It makes me realise that all this hassle will be worth it in the end.

[Guest]

Well done Upsy Daisy - so glad the meeting went well

[Guest Mrs Tiggy Winkle]

Sounds like things may be finally moving in the right direction.... shame things had to get so bad first... I can never understand why some teachers need to dig their heels in over this kind of issue - if they endeavour to meet each child's individual needs it can only make their job easier!!

 

Good for you for staying strong for your daughter - she's a lucky girl!!

[Guest]

On a good note I had a review for my older daughter in her mainstream autism base this morning too and it was a really positive experience. After 18 months of fighting they now understand her much better and are meeting her needs. She is doing really well academically is beginning to communicate with the staff. It's amazing what the right provision can achieve! It makes me realise that all this hassle will be worth it in the end.

 

That's great news! Looking back at how hard you fought to get her what she needs and how successfully it's working should emphasis how right you are to be battling for her sister, too - wouldn't it be lovely if the assessment system was less stressful for parents and children Perhaps, one day...

 

Nona

[Guest]

Kariana there is a child who is jealous of G's 'privileges' but I think the solution would be to work with her to help her to understand equality and diversity rather than expect a child like G who has significant social imagination issues to anticipate her feelings. G does take up teacher time because she struggles with creative activities of any sort, particularly writing and needs to be scaffolded closely. The TA went and moved to Australia (how could she? ) after Christmas so they are without one until after half term which doesn't help.

 

 

I think you're quite right here! I hope you can suggest this to the teacher and SENCo during your meeting. As a teacher I'd be much more concerned about adjusting the jealous child's behaviour and getting her to understand things so I would definitely bring this up on Wednesday.

 

I do have some sympathy for the teacher's situation though, I hadn't realised she was without TA support of any kind at all. It is hard to have a child with very complex needs in your class on your own because you need to split yourself between them and all the other children and you start to feel guilty because you feel you're 'abandoning' the other children and not meeting the needs of the one child appropriately either. I would say she is probably incredibly stressed right now and under a great deal of pressure which might be responsible in part for her attitude (although doesn't excuse it at all). Also if G really is taking up that much of her time perhaps she is just expecting too much of her in terms of writing or whatever due to her good academic ability in other areas. Maybe she needs to readjust her thinking or expectations with regards to this so G can do things she can work on independently whilst there is no TA available. Surely at this point building her confidence and independence is more important than her sitting down and writing an entire story (or whatever they are expecting of her) but sometimes as teachers we need someone to remind us of this, so don't be afraid to mention this at the meeting if you really do get the impression they are expecting too much with too little support.

 

To be honest though the head should have been much more on top of the situation. She should never have left the teacher or your daughter in the ridiculous position of having no TA for a whole half term. Thank goodness there's only another two weeks!

 

Great news about your older daughter though, I'm glad things are looking much more positive for her and hopefully things will move in the same direction for G as well.

[Guest]

Well done Upsy, I'm so glad things are looking up for you and your girls. Time for G's school to come out of the dark ages and accept that it is their responsibility to do what is right for her.

BTW does she have a workstation in class? It might be worth considering as this would help G to learn to work independently and free up some time for the teacher to work with the other children x

[Upsy Daisy]

Kariana I think you're right about expectations and I also think I knew this deep down but hadn't really considered it properly. I will raise it tomorrow.

 

Missblinx what's a workstation?

[Guest]

Really glad to hear it went well Upsy Daisy.

 

I'm surprised to hear the teacher saying that the others in the class struggle with G getting extra support. I've found that, if you introduce the idea of different needs in a sensitive way (without referring to specific individuals), the other children are generally very understanding. They mostly seem to sense, without it having to be spelt out, that some children for whatever reason need more teacher input than others.

 

Ironically I'm just organising a pirate costume for my own dd who has been asked to assemble one from random items, such as striped t shirt and jeans. We have gone for pirate style PJs belonging to her older brother. Apparently her teacher has no concerns about boys/girls wearing skirts, etc.

[Guest]

Missblinx what's a workstation?

 

I'll do my best to describe it...

It's an individual work area with no distractions. I have 4 in my ASD classroom and they consist of a small table and chair boxed in on either side with shelf units. The idea is that the child feels secure and distraction free. Any work that is put into the work station has to be something that they can do completely independently. For my class this is mainly matching work (laminated pics with velcro) or things like missing numbers (you can find loads of ideas for workstation activities online, there's no point me listing them here because it completely depends on the child's ability). You start by teaching the child to do the activity, then when you are sure they can do it, it goes into their workstation. Everything in the workstation goes from left to right so on the shelf on their left is a box with all the work that they need to do. They take out one piece of work at a time, complete it then put it into the 'finished' box on the right. They know that when their box is empty they have finished all their work and they can leave the workstation. How much work you put in again depends on the individual. I have some children who have only one piece of work and others who have 20! My kids love being in their workstations and always come out really calm and happy.

 

I'm not sure how well I've described that because I use them every day and so I know what I'm talking about!! If I've made it as clear as mud, let me know and I'll try again! x

[Guest]

here's a couple of webpages that might explain workstations better than I have! This one explains what they are and how to set one up:

http://www.alljoinin.net/All_Join_In/Print...workstation.pdf

 

And this one has examples of the types of activities you might have in them:

http://www.preschoolfun.com/pages/teacch%20work%20jobs.htm

[Upsy Daisy]

Thanks Missblinx! A space of her own without distractions would be perfect for her. Another subject to broach gently with the teacher tomorrow.