Guest Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Dear All, just trying to put together a form that I can ask the team to sign to confirm their ongoing suitability. CRB's are renewed every three years but it has recently been suggested that I secure a declaration along the lines of continued good health, no convictions etc annually. Does anyone have any examples they are already using in their settings? Thank you x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 i'll be interested in the replies to this one as i don't think you can ask your staff to do a health declaration now...anyone know for sure? p.s. our crb company said there was no point in us doing crbs every three years for existing staff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjayne Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 My understanding re. the health declaration was that you can't ask potentail employees to complete one as part fo the application process - until you have identified the best person for the post and then you can request a health declaration is completed . For exixting staff an annual declaration is allowed as you have to ensure they are still fit for the post - or if they have had health changes any adaptations you may need to put in place are completed. As for the CRB every 3 years for existing staff - it is just a recommendation and the annual declaration form covers you partially , but schools are advised that the three yearly checks are compulsary and I tend to follow thier guidance. Yes they will cost you about £50 each but isn't that a small price to pay for a document that some people see is for 'peace of mind' and which , if you have a member of staff who may have been less than honest on the AD form will highlight any annomalies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) Hi Finleysmaid, I think I deduced when I read through the Equalities Act that we can no longer ask potential staff to fill in a health declaration form, but then I was slightly confused as to whether this applied to education! Will have to check again as recruiting at the moment! The idea being that employees can't be ruled out of a post on health grounds but once employed we can ask for one. Sensible as risk assesments could need to be implemented in the case of a bad back etc. I spoke to the lovely people at OFSTED on Thursday for clarification on this one. They said that it was down to the settings own CRB policy how often checks were carried out. But she went on to say that if we did them every three years we should ask staff to sign a declaration stating that there had been no change in circumstances annually. When I checked our policy it does state three years. Beyond this I'm unsure how to progress! Sorry Redjayne, think our posts must have crossed! Do you have an example of the annual declaration? Edited January 16, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjayne Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I knew somebody would ask me that one ! LOL I don't have mine on this PC - it's on the work machine and am trying to rack my brains as to how it is exactly worded - even went onto my Authorities CLC and no copy on there - drat! I can put on here tomorrow - but it's a single sheet which has statements asking a) whether there have been any changes in health / issues with mobilty etc since last declaration any convictions or pending prosecutions since last declaration c) any other changes we should be aware of signature and date on bottom of sheet . Am sure somebody else will be more organised than me and have one to share! Thanks for reminding me that my staff need to sign theres on Wednesday at staff meeting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjayne Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Ignore the sunglassed smiley on B please - where did he come from ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 ther is a heath declaration form in the resource library which may be a start point.. it is the one we used a while ago now but osfted were very happy with it and had some input with suggestions of what needed to go on it.. the big one which they insisted on was the drinking and substance use bit.. our previous one did not have it and they said it had to include it and it was one of our recommendations to do at the time.. we just added a sheet for the staff to sign annually... with space for any relevant changes to circumstances.. not done at annual review but every year in sept.. I think the health declaration on application is the one we cannot now ask for... think you need to know of any medical needs while employed so you can help the staff do the job to the best of their ability.. things like allergies etc need to be known, same as for the children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 thanks everyone for that clarification...our borough is a bit useless about passing on info at the moment (they are so wrapped upin their own issues!) sorry Moo i seem to have hijacked your post a bit typical just cant keep my mouth shut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 thanks inge have just pinched yours from the library (difficult when you are a small setting sometimes some paperwork seems futile!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 After recently recruiting 2 new members of staff both of whom became pregnant within weeks of each other, and both of whom left during their probationary period because, and I quote, "I cant cope with working and being pregnant", would it be wrong for me to ask all interviwees to go into the toilet and "wee on this stick please"? Yes I am joking but it would sooooo help!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestar Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 After recently recruiting 2 new members of staff both of whom became pregnant within weeks of each other, and both of whom left during their probationary period because, and I quote, "I cant cope with working and being pregnant", would it be wrong for me to ask all interviwees to go into the toilet and "wee on this stick please"? Yes I am joking but it would sooooo help!!! :( :wacko: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluestar Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I cant seem to find the one in the resource library - could anyone point me in the right direction please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjayne Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Go into Resources - Management and Admin - Staffing and personnel - Health declaration - the update sheet is on the second page of this document. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 thanks everyone for that clarification...our borough is a bit useless about passing on info at the moment (they are so wrapped upin their own issues!) sorry Moo i seem to have hijacked your post a bit typical just cant keep my mouth shut That is not a problem finleysmaid!! It's nice to find so many likeminded people, although think we'd have better things to do on a Sunday morning!!! Thanks ever so much for all the input, this is what I was using but will have to review I think in light of the changes, probably split details and health into two. Would really appreciate a look at your annual dec though redjayne, thank you x Right, let's see how you upload docs HEALTH_DEC.docx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Go into Resources - Management and Admin - Staffing and personnel - Health declaration - the update sheet is on the second page of this document. DOH! Sorry, missed this post somehow!!! Thank you x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjayne Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 As promised - the copy we use Suitable_Person_Checks_Form.doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teahead Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Thank you very muchly xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I've used one of these myself that I nicked off here, so thanks for that. However ... from a personal point of view this strikes me as yet another exercise in paperwork that is pretty much completely pointless. As my long suffering partner said to me when I had my suitable person interview, and told him about some of the very personal questions I was asked, 'did they ask you if you were a paedophile and did you say no?' It's all very well asking the question, but anyone who is likely to want to cause harm to children is unlikely to give a truthful answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I've used one of these myself that I nicked off here, so thanks for that. However ... from a personal point of view this strikes me as yet another exercise in paperwork that is pretty much completely pointless. As my long suffering partner said to me when I had my suitable person interview, and told him about some of the very personal questions I was asked, 'did they ask you if you were a paedophile and did you say no?' It's all very well asking the question, but anyone who is likely to want to cause harm to children is unlikely to give a truthful answer. I raised this with the Ofsted inspector when they insisted on having the alcohol question added to my forms.. the reply was that if they lie on the form you cannot be held responsible for it.. and it would come back on the individual not the setting if it was found not to be true.. think this is the reason for the questions... comes back onto the individual.. not the person asking.. How this would hold up in reality is another matter... but it was the reason I was given for the need to ask these questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I can see the point from the setting's perspective. But ... surely the whole point of these forms in the first place is not about protecting the setting, but about protecting the children? I feel strongly that we fool ourselves in a lot of ways when we believe a piece of paper is the answer to child protection (and I mean Ofsted/government by that rather than practitioners). Unless they did some kind of highly intrusive testing, which just isn't going to happen, then these forms are hardly worth the paper they are written on, I'm afraid, in terms of children's safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 That I agree.. and I argued every which way about the reason for the paperwork on several things which seemed to have no real reason behind them , this was just one of them, and the answer was always the same.. so I gave up, did it as simply as I could, filed it... and there it stayed... and probably still is there ... 2 years after I left! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Good for you on arguing with them. This current government talks a lot about cutting bureaucracy, maybe we should make a list of 'things that are completely pointless but preschools are asked to do'! It would be a LONG list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Having had a recent unpleasant brush with OFSTED I am very focused at the moment on covering my own back. Not a good feeling and a complete waste of time that would be far better spent, but have learnt that protecting the setting from unreasonable demands from 'above' (or below), has to come near top of my list of things to do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynned55 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Unless they did some kind of highly intrusive testing, which just isn't going to happen, then these forms are hardly worth the paper they are written on, I'm afraid, in terms of children's safety. I'm with you we are fast getting to the point where as long as we have a piece of paper saying WE DONT DO THIS OR THAT then everyone is fooled into a false sense of security. I raised this with the Ofsted inspector when they insisted on having the alcohol question added to my forms So...... as long as the rolling around drunk has signed a piece of paper to say they are not a drunk then or you ask if they have been drinking and they say No, certainly not! then the setting is covered? That's what that sounds like to me & yes good for you for arguing- much good it does though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiLi1 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I've pinched your downloads to use, it's been very helpful, trying to word something when looking at a blank page is a nightmare. I'm trying to get everything in order since I took over, I really appreciate finding this site and forum, Thanks LiLi1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panders Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 My understanding re. the health declaration was that you can't ask potentail employees to complete one as part fo the application process - until you have identified the best person for the post and then you can request a health declaration is completed . For exixting staff an annual declaration is allowed as you have to ensure they are still fit for the post - or if they have had health changes any adaptations you may need to put in place are completed. As for the CRB every 3 years for existing staff - it is just a recommendation and the annual declaration form covers you partially , but schools are advised that the three yearly checks are compulsary and I tend to follow thier guidance. Yes they will cost you about £50 each but isn't that a small price to pay for a document that some people see is for 'peace of mind' and which , if you have a member of staff who may have been less than honest on the AD form will highlight any annomalies. :1b Not at all sure about this but if you have signed up to the DBS checks Update service don't think it would cost that much - just floating this as I really don't have a scooby do actually, but I do know that there is an up-date service! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Following on from reading an article I did a search and found this useful info and potential form to use to check staff suitability. It is NDNA so hope it is ok to upload? DisqualificationFS.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panders Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Not at all sure about this but if you have signed up to the DBS checks Update service don't think it would cost that much - just floating this as I really don't have a scooby do actually, but I do know that there is an up-date service! https://www.gov.uk/dbs-update-service ok, been of for a bit of research! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 That's really useful marley - thanks for sharing - I am aware that I need to update my 'paperwork' need to include something about 'living with a disqualified person' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 This is one that was included in with the pack I received when doing my latest safer recruitment training, from my LEA/LSCB... Silly really, as who is going to answer 'yes' to any of the questions if they know there will be consequences?!Staff Suitability Declaration - generic.docx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.