15 Hrs

[Fredbear]

Hi just a query, i was led to believe that the 15hrs was the maximum funding allocation but that it did not mean parents had to take it if they did not wish to. My question is if we are now open for 6 sessions of 3hrs but parents are only taking 4 sessions max a week per child is this allowed. Or must they take the full 15hrs.

Hope this makes sense.

[Gezabel]

We have children who access just the hours parents wish to 'use' and this if completed on the funding form

 

We have children who do 6. 12 or 15 hours and think there are some other variations too!

[Fredbear]

Yes thats us too, but the funding dept are querying why they are not taking the full allocation, another call tomorrow i think.

[HappyMaz]

Yes thats us too, but the funding dept are querying why they are not taking the full allocation, another call tomorrow i think.

Presumably because they feel their children are not ready to attend a childcare setting for 15 hours? Or am I missing someting?

[Fredbear]

Yes exactly Maz, now the funding Department are saying the children should be attending for the full 15hrs. Humn

Some of my parents also choose to send their children to two provisions and split the funding. They are now also suggesting that they will have to contact our development worker to see if we are fulfilling the requirements for the funding. Its a minefield.

[HappyMaz]

And there was me thinking that the whole idea of the 15 hours is that parents could take it flexibly and according to the individual needs of the child. Silly me - clearly it is designed to make things easier for finance departments.

 

I had a query today about a child who is leaving us in January. If the child isn't with me on headcount day the parent will simply not qualify for the child's 15 'free' hours and will have to pay her fees in full. So much for an 'entitlement'!

[Fredbear]

What they are also saying is that from a survey i completed, to the question are you able to offer up to 15hrs funding my answer was yes as we are open for 6 x 3 hrs, but that doesn't mean parents want to take it and thats what there questioning. It makes my blood boil.

Edited November 15, 2010 by bridger

[Panders]

Havent had any queries like that in Kent. My parents access as much or as little of the 15 hours as they want to.

[Guest]

Most of our parents take the full 15 hours they are entitled to, but not all.

 

I work in a maintained nursery in the mornings so if they don't use their full 15 hours they lose them. Funding in our county anyway, can't be split if one of the settings is a maintained nursery! Of course with single funding formula that is likely to change!

 

However in regard to an earlier comment re head count day, I fill out all the forms for funding for afternoon private nursery sessions, but if a child arrives with us late I just tag his or her name onto the next form with their details and start date and the funding gets altered accordingly!

[Guest]

If I recall correctly, my understanding was that they can take a minimum of 2 hours per day, over a minimum of 2 days per week, depending on your local authoritis rules. Of course we must only claim funding for the hours they take up, and not the full 15.

[bubblejack]

Surely it has to be parental choice and quite honestly I don't think I would have wanted to use all the 15 hours when my own children were that age. Parents have to tick why they are not accessing all hours, parental choice- setting policy-availability. If parents are forced to take all 15 hours many of them wont bother to send there children on certain days. Its bad enough now. As its a bit chilly today many parents will not bother to come out.

[Fredbear]

Thats right Sam, a phone call today is on its way to clarify, maybe we have our wires crossed somewhere.

Will let you all know how i get on.

[narnia]

It's odd how each county administers this differently. I had a child who moved three weeks into the term, a week before headcount,due to her mums job changing and I was told in no uncertain terms that not only could I NOT charge for the 15 hours per week she'd been having, I also couldn't charge forthe lack of notice period either. I wonder just how on earth we're supposed to manage financially on this basis??

[sunnyday]

Yes exactly Maz, now the funding Department are saying the children should be attending for the full 15hrs. Humn

Some of my parents also choose to send their children to two provisions and split the funding. They are now also suggesting that they will have to contact our development worker to see if we are fulfilling the requirements for the funding. Its a minefield.

 

Oh flippin' heck - I'll be 'in trouble' if that's the case......

 

Do let us know how this pans out please......

 

As Panders has said - no such queries in Kent.......yet

[HappyMaz]

I think I may have misinterpreted what the chap from my Borough was saying to me yesterday because I can't see how I can possibly charge a parent for their 'free' entitlement. I'm going to email him to clarify and I'll let you know what he says. It may just be a case of my adding two and two and getting five...

[Panders]

And there was me thinking that the whole idea of the 15 hours is that parents could take it flexibly and according to the individual needs of the child. Silly me - clearly it is designed to make things easier for finance departments.

 

I had a query today about a child who is leaving us in January. If the child isn't with me on headcount day the parent will simply not qualify for the child's 15 'free' hours and will have to pay her fees in full. So much for an 'entitlement'!

 

 

Do you mean child will be leaving you some time during January - and if child is not attending you or another provider on headcount day they will totally miss out on funding for spring term?

 

We had one boy return to us for 2 weeks in September, our authority paid me for the whole of the first half term, but I had to put in a disclosure when he left, they will deduct this by the end of the end of term 2 but will pay for the two weeks he was with me.

[HappyMaz]

Do you mean child will be leaving you some time during January - and if child is not attending you or another provider on headcount day they will totally miss out on funding for spring term?

With hindsight, I think what this would mean is that if the child has left the setting by headcount day I will not received funding, and that I wouldn't be able to charge the parent for it. That's what I shall be asking for clarification on.

 

If the child leaves after headcount day I may be asked by the child's next setting to pass over the unused portion of the term's funding. If I'm not asked to pass it on then I can keep it, and offer the child's funded session to another child who is eligible for funding but has not taken up the full 15 hours. If no children take up the offer of extra sessions then I would be free to use the funding to buy new resources for the setting so that all funded children can benefit from them.

[Panders]

That's how Kent used to do it, I suppose it depends upon the capabilities of the accounting system in place. Kent did want to return to that system a while back but decided not to. As mentioned we get a chance to adjust leavers and joiners half way through the term.

[Fredbear]

Okay i have spoken to the funding officer today and infact they were just gauging from our headcount data that no children were taking up the full 15hrs with us, and was there a reason for this.

I explained that some parents do use up their full quota but with two provisions and this again is fine.

This isn't because we cannot offer it but its how some parents would like to use it.

After a full and frank discussion i was told that this is not a problem and yes it should be about parents choice and that there is no issue with this. So business as usual and carrying on as we are.

[sunnyday]

Okay i have spoken to the funding officer today and infact they were just gauging from our headcount data that no children were taking up the full 15hrs with us, and was there a reason for this.

I explained that some parents do use up their full quota but with two provisions and this again is fine.

This isn't because we cannot offer it but its how some parents would like to use it.

After a full and frank discussion i was told that this is not a problem and yes it should be about parents choice and that there is no issue with this. So business as usual and carrying on as we are.

Phew! That's a relief......

[Guest]

I run a private nursery and we charge for 10hrs each day. Some of my children are just approaching 3. They are asking if i will accept the 15hrs free childcare vouchers. I have enquired and my knowledge is that as the vouchers are worth £3.73hr and i charge £4.50, i will be out of pocket each hour AND the parents are not allowed to top-up the difference And as i dont offer half days the parents are unable to top-up for the whole day, so i am unable to receive these vouchers for my children. Is this correct info. Does anyone else allow the parents to top-up.

[sunnyday]

I run a private nursery and we charge for 10hrs each day. Some of my children are just approaching 3. They are asking if i will accept the 15hrs free childcare vouchers. I have enquired and my knowledge is that as the vouchers are worth £3.73hr and i charge £4.50, i will be out of pocket each hour AND the parents are not allowed to top-up the difference And as i dont offer half days the parents are unable to top-up for the whole day, so i am unable to receive these vouchers for my children. Is this correct info. Does anyone else allow the parents to top-up.

 

Whoa there! Top up is not allowed under any circumstances.......we are all 'out of pocket' - it's a dreadful situation.........

[SueJ]

Hi Sibs

 

As Sunnyday says top ups or compulsory additional services (e.g., meals and uniforms) are a big no no - nearly everyone offering the free entitlement is out of pocket.

 

You might find it useful to trawl through the guidance document. I have uploaded my highlighted copy where I have highlighted bits that I think are important which explains how it works and what you can and can't do.

 

However if you are offering 10 hours per day I believe that you as a provider can decide when the free entitlement can be accessed e.g., three hours between 3.00pm and 6.00pm per day with hours between say 8.00am and 3.00pm chargeable at your normal rates but you might want to check that out with your local authority.

 

Code_of_practice_for_local_authorities_on_delivery_of_Free_Early_Years_provision_for_3_and_4yearolds1 97 version.doc

[Guest]

Ok so no top ups......as a PDN what if they are doing 3 hours per day say 9.30 til 12.30 but the parent needs to be in work at 8 so needs to drop off at 7.30....do you just so no we can't do that?? Or do they pay for the extra hours??

[sunnyday]

Ok so no top ups......as a PDN what if they are doing 3 hours per day say 9.30 til 12.30 but the parent needs to be in work at 8 so needs to drop off at 7.30....do you just so no we can't do that?? Or do they pay for the extra hours??

 

Hi

 

In that situation they are not only 'doing 3 hours' are they? Am I missing something here? :blink: :1b

[Inge]

usual way of receiving funding for us was to work out the hours attended in a day...and have the bill remove the 3 hours we were receiving the funding for( the funded hours), and they paid our normal rate for any over and above that,

 

so we made a loss on the 3 hours a day but got our usual rate for any others attended..

 

we had loads of restrictions and conditions to receive the funding, and parents could just attend for those hours only, we could nto insist on them taking any extra hours if they did not want to..

[sunnyday]

usual way of receiving funding for us was to work out the hours attended in a day...and have the bill remove the 3 hours we were receiving the funding for( the funded hours), and they paid our normal rate for any over and above that,

 

so we made a loss on the 3 hours a day but got our usual rate for any others attended..

 

we had loads of restrictions and conditions to receive the funding, and parents could just attend for those hours only, we could nto insist on them taking any extra hours if they did not want to..

 

Hi Inge

 

Now I may have this completely wrong but I don't think that works 'now' - my understanding is that it's 15 hours - so not multiples of 3 hour sessions - does that make any sense?

 

Please someone, anyone - feel free to shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong :blink: :lol:

[thumperrabbit]

Hi Inge

 

Now I may have this completely wrong but I don't think that works 'now' - my understanding is that it's 15 hours - so not multiples of 3 hour sessions - does that make any sense?

 

Please someone, anyone - feel free to shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong :blink: :lol:

 

Sunnyday- that's what we have been told too, could have 5 hours funded if that's what the parents want

[sunnyday]

Sunnyday- that's what we have been told too, could have 5 hours funded if that's what the parents want

 

Phew! Thought that i had completely lost the plot there for a minute! (Tell you what I'm edging closer and closer to needing a place in a 'home for the bewildered'!) :blink: :lol:

[Guest mukerjee1]

I think I own a home for the bewildered...can't remember where I left it...