Guest Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 i would suggest making sure a policy and prodecure is set in place and done with your team, that way it covers your staff and if they are involved it may support them to feel more confident with the secruity of a policy. also look at the changin areas avaible, i found we needed to have a little move around and have a screen so 1 person could change a child and still have an elemnt of privacy for the child but also making sure that its not closed in and cofined and other staff can see what is hapening too and were not taken away fom thier jobs.
Rea Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 This has been discussed many times and always with the same problems arising. I know there are cutbacks coming for all of us but really the Government, local and national, should address this by putting money into early years and that includes reception so there can be enough staff to cover the needs of all children, that money should be ringfenced for just that too, so no-one can use the money for extra SATS tuition or similar un-necessary spending. It makes me so cross that we even need to discuss this in 2010 when children as young as 4 have been entering reception for the last 20 years. It could also be part of teacher training in the future, that way, anyone going into teaching will know from the start that it is part of their job description. I'm sure that any reasonable parent and lets face it, most of them are really, would want their childs needs met and would be aghast if they knew the quandry staff face when faced with a pair of soiled pants. Please no-one think this is a rant at any individual, its plain that we all want to do whats best just that people outside of early years settings havent quite caught up with that.
Guest Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 I only have experience of preschool and accept the set up is different to a school classroom - couldn't there be 'floating support staff' who can be called on to help out when needed? Sadly as I'm sure you are probably aware there is absolutely no money in schools to pay a floating support staff person in this way. Even if someone is assigned to this duty e.g. 'if someone soils themselves we will call Charlie's one to one out of year two to come and assist since he can cope by himself for a while' this raises other huge problems. Why should Charlie lose his support time? Why should the teacher have to suddenly find her/himself without his 1-1 support? Even if it's a general teaching assistant being called out that is incredibly inconvenient for the teacher who then has to deal with a group of children who can't complete their activity independently but now have no one to assist them until the TA gets back. If this was happening to me I'd be very annoyed since I have a lot of complex needs in my class and very few TA hours as it is. Of course as someone has already said reception classes need some ringfenced money to provide an extra staff member so that every class has two adults. That is but a distant dream though unfortunately.
Lyanne Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 In Suffolk they produced guidelines for dealing with intimate care and we have used this to produce our own policy as we have several children entering school and Nursery not yet toilet trained. It would be seen as discriminatory is against the DDA to leave a child in soiled clothes or to expect parents to come and change them just like we cannot refuse children coming to school and Pre school who are not toilet trained. We have a duty of care to the children but also to staff so therefore if a member of staff who felt strongly about not changing a child then I personally would not force them to do so. Teachers and TA's change and support children with their toileting needs. I would suggest you draw up a policy that fits in with your settings requirements. S Like Sharon, I'm in Suffolk & my sons are in school in Suffolk. Younger son soiled himself at least once in Reception, and wet himself the other week - he's now in Year 3. I've never been phoned by the school about it, they give him spare clothes (last time he came home is school pants age 7-8 so I know school are well prepared for it, & the jogging trousers out of his PE bag) & he is semi-supervised in changing. Can't remember whether he wiped himself or the TA wiped him when he soiled himself in Reception. I do remember school & I worked on a plan where he was reminded to go to the toilet more often...
Upsy Daisy Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 Hi, the 'never hug a child' is a myth, in fact there is government guidance saying the opposite. There may not be any formal government guidance saying this but settings are responsible for their own risk assessments and therefore making their own decisions about what is appropriate. I know of one pre-school setting and one reception class where no hugs or cuddles on laps is the policy despite the staff being unhappy about it. I also know a foster carer who has had the same advice from her agency regarding any child she cares for. Sadly it is actually happening out there whether we like it or not and I think it comes down to the old story of risk assessment turning into risk elimination. It's an awful shame that false accusations can make practitioners feel that they have to worry about cleaning up a child who needs help. I'm sure that the vast majority of parents would be shocked to find out what a big issue this is in settings where such small children are cared for.
Guest jenpercy Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 I have had a lot of arguments about whether everyone should be made to change children. I say not, mainly because of the child. I have tried to supervise unwilling staff to train them to do it properly, but either they were rough, or they didn't clean properly, or they were gagging, and that's with me watching. you cannot subject a child to that.
narnia Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 No, you can't subject a child to that............................but then NO staff should be 'rough or not cleaning properly', I still can't see the fuss, honestly, if it needs doing, I just get on and do it.I wouldn't dream of calling parents in, and especially not to just check the child is clean if they attempt to sort themselves out. But if I thought one of my staff had been rough, or hadn't done the clean up properly,I'd be aghast. I jsut think it's all part of the job of caring AND educating............the two things go hand in hand, surely?
Guest jenpercy Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 No, you can't subject a child to that............................but then NO staff should be 'rough or not cleaning properly', I still can't see the fuss, honestly, if it needs doing, I just get on and do it.I wouldn't dream of calling parents in, and especially not to just check the child is clean if they attempt to sort themselves out. But if I thought one of my staff had been rough, or hadn't done the clean up properly,I'd be aghast. I jsut think it's all part of the job of caring AND educating............the two things go hand in hand, surely? Well i agree - BUT you can't assume that all staff will do it proerly. Some of the younger staff have had real difficulties bringing themselves to do it. Not all of course but enough to make me say that if staff don't want to do it I can find them something else to do - like cleaning the toilets, or if someone needs to stay behind etc.
Upsy Daisy Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 (edited) In any walk of life there are times when we have to do things we find difficult. Whatever the circumstances I would expect any Early Years Practitioner, TA or teacher to be professional and considerate to the child. If I ever saw someone being rough, expressing disgust or not cleaning a child properly I would expect it to be dealt with immediately with a warning followed by the disciplinary process if it continued. It has to be made clear that that behaviour is always totally unacceptable. Edited November 12, 2010 by Upsy Daisy
Guest Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 Agree its all part and parcel of the job - we are professionals, can you imagine a nurse turning up her nose at cleaning up after a patient!
HappyMaz Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 This discussion is beginning to remind me of a recent thread when we talked about whether we should include phrases like "when changing children, our staff will not make derogatory comments or express disgust about contents of children's nappies". At that point I remember there was mild outrage expressed at the suggestion that a sentence like this in a policy should be needed at all because we are all so professional. It seems maybe some practitioners do indeed this kind of statement in a policy so they know what to do!
Rea Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 It seems maybe some practitioners do indeed this kind of statement in a policy so they know what to do! Isnt toiletting and the appropriate way to behave included in training? I would have hoped it is, but I find it very sad that people going into childcare find it difficutlt to do a part of the job professionaly. If young girls are finding it difficult I'd question why they're in the job, its not for the money! The times I've had to try to breath without actually breathing and still sing or chat and the times I've had to ignore a gag reflex dont bear thinking about. Somethings in life just have to be faced.
Guest jenpercy Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 In any walk of life there are times when we have to do things we find difficult. Whatever the circumstances I would expect any Early Years Practitioner, TA or teacher to be professional and considerate to the child. If I ever saw someone being rough, expressing disgust or not cleaning a child properly I would expect it to be dealt with immediately with a warning followed by the disciplinary process if it continued. It has to be made clear that that behaviour is always totally unacceptable. you can of course issue warnings - but either you escort staff every time - or you have no way of knowing wheher they take notice of your warning.
Upsy Daisy Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 you can of course issue warnings - but either you escort staff every time - or you have no way of knowing wheher they take notice of your warning. You shouldn't need to escort them or check up on them. You should be able to trust them to be completely professional and treat the children with the utmost care and respect at all times - not just when you are watching. If I couldn't trust a member of staff to do that I would be questioning whether they were in the right job. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but you can't be half committed to children's well-being when you are employed to care for them. No practitioner should ever be willing to treat a child in the way you describe.
Guest Posted November 13, 2010 Posted November 13, 2010 The times I've had to try to breath without actually breathing and still sing or chat and the times I've had to ignore a gag reflex dont bear thinking about. Somethings in life just have to be faced. I know the feeling! Unfortunately I do gag if ever I have to deal with children who have soiled rather than just wet, but I can tell when it's going to happen and make sure I choose that moment to dash into the toilet cubicle to fetch toilet paper or something, once I have gagged a couple of times in there I can usually stop myself doing it again. Of course I clean them properly and don't express any disgust in front of the children. The gagging I just can't help, no amount of trying to ignore it makes it go away, I think I have a problem with that reflex but I would never let it stop me from cleaning a child properly.
Panders Posted November 14, 2010 Posted November 14, 2010 I seem to be able to bring mind over matter into play and very rarely gag and probably do most of the distraction techniques which Rea employs. Don't know if this might help I did read somewhere that forensic people use a small dab of Vicks vapour rub under their noses when they are doing post-mortem examinations - .............
Inge Posted November 14, 2010 Posted November 14, 2010 I was just about to post the Vicks trick.. seems it is the smell which causes the issue.. and can be masked with it.. know of several nursery's who have a jar to hand! ( can also be used to stop dogs chewing furniture!) Inge
Cait Posted November 14, 2010 Posted November 14, 2010 and rubbed on the soles of a child's feet can help a night-time cough!
Guest Posted November 14, 2010 Posted November 14, 2010 and rubbed on the soles of a child's feet can help a night-time cough! This is the third time I've heard this in a week and I'd never heard of it before at all! Did someone forget to give me this advice when i became a mum?
Guest Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Hi I am a male working in a reception class. I only have part time help. If a child has an accident I will change them. Office lady comes in and watches my class! I leave the toilet door open and give the child wipes/pants/etc. All parents know I change the children. I'm a dad too and all this rubbish about not changing a child because we might be charged with something..... Complete load of rubbish. Commen sense! I also give hugs to my children, all the time! My class is about love for each other. Children in my class need love. Some of them do not see it. Sometimes as teachers we really dont help ourselves! Anyone excuses me of anything I am more likely to bash them on the nose!! Rant over:) Now its time for some phonics......... well me....singing and dancing and making a fool of myself!!!
Guest Posted November 16, 2010 Posted November 16, 2010 excuses...hmm...think I need the letter sounds! Wrong word! You know what I mean! D
Guest Posted November 20, 2010 Posted November 20, 2010 I would like to raise a point regarding "we are educators". Education in the EY (and reception is included in the EY) centres on the whole child- and includes as we all know personal care. On those occsasions that a child has an accident (have to say I hate that as a term as well- its not an accident- they simply wet/solied themselves for whatever reason- these things happen- ) it should be seen as an opportunity to help "educate" the child in not leaving it too long/asking to go/etc and then educating the child in how to help themselves sort it out with full support.
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