Guest Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Hi all Just wanted your opinions really... At my old setting we took lots of photos to put in individaul childs scrapbook which, when they left the pre-school they took with them. I loved them (as do the parents) as they say a picture says a thousand words! They were great evidence! New setting takes hardly any photos. Supervisor has sought advice and been told that photos should have only the one child whose scrapbook or learning journal it is going into as these will eventually leave the setting. As she says to just get one child in a photo can be quite difficult. Therefore they dont take many! I thought so long as permission for taking photos was signed then this would be covered but she says not. I think this is going a bit far...what about xmas plays, parties etc when parents take phots themselves....im sure we can all think of situations. So what do you do? Is this something i should try to discuss furher with my new supervisor or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 In my learning journeys I only put photos in of the child whose journal it is except if it's my children on the photo ( as I don't mind this). The only other exception I have is if faces cannot be seen. It's easier to get one child only though in my setting. Could they not edit the faces out of the pictures on the computer before printing them perhaps or even cut them off if this is the case? I too think it's the world going mad! Hope this have given you a few ideas Netta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Forgot to say, I would discuss it with your superviser with some suggestions of how to carry out her wishes but still take lots of photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Im really worried about my old setting too! Perhaps I should mention it to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 we obtain permission from parents to take pictures and ask if they are happy to be used in that way and parents are happy because they appreciate how much a picture is enhanced by having more than a solitary child. We make sure that parents know what we mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 in my old setting they had this issue and just used a black marker pen to cover other children's faces in the setting i'm in we take loads of photos and have permission to put them in learning journeys and this has never been questioned. samfrostie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 cant you just blank the other childrens faces out? Black pen or something? That's what we do if necessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panders Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I don't see why your new setting should find it difficult to get just one child in a photo doint something on their own. However, if there are other children visible in the background blank them out as suggested by pen. We get permission from all our families regarding photos, I explain why we need permission, I go over this again at group occasions when parents want to take photos, we take an enormous amount of photos of the childre. Open up the discussion with your new setting and at least try to make them see that it can be done securely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Well firstly I'd track down whoever gave this advice and ask them to justify it. On what basis is the setting being asked not to include photographs that exclude the child's friends? How sad to look through a learning journey and see no other children in the book with your child: one might well assume that your child has formed no friendships at all at nursery. What messages are we sending children if we black out children's faces in their photographs? I can't think of anything worse. All our parents give permission to have their child's photograph taken at nursery, and every family is made aware that their child will have their own special book containing hundreds of photographs of theem working and playing with and alongside other children. Children playing and learning together is such a crucial part of what happens at pre-school and to spend time moving children out of the way whilst we take photographs would not only be time consuming - but imagine the effect on children's self esteem. How do you explain to a child well enough so that they won't conclude that they just aren't good enough to appear in their best friend's photo? Photographs stored on a CD perhaps offer a different challenge (as witnessed on the Evian thread - images can be manipulated) and I don't at present give parents an electronic copy of their children's photos until I can figure a way round it. But come the day that I am told I can't take photographs of groups of children for their special books then I think I shall give up and go and work at Tesco. Sorry but you seem to have hit a nerve here - I'm off to lie down in a dark room! Maz PS I would just like to say that where a parent does not want their child photographed, then that is an entirely different matter. However, other than one family who didn't want their child's photo being publicly displayed or printed in the newspaper we haven't had this happen in the six years I've been working in my setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 we have a form parents sign as part of the admission process giving list of all the possible uses of photos parents tick or cross out any options then sign - this covers their child being in a photo that goes in another's learning journey and everything up to website and newspaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 we've only ever had one as well, and Mum was ok with 'in house' photos as long as she wasn't on anyone else's, so she was always on the end of a line, and we took the photo and then cropped her off - Mum was happy with this method - it was better than saying, oh no Karen, you must stand over there, or whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I agree with Maz!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 How sad that that is the advice they have been given. I agree totally with Maz. Nicky Sussex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 we too had permission for children to be in each others pics.. it was on our permission slip as to how the pictures would be used, stored and even down to who would take the pictures... and on which camera..and how they were stored, by whom etc.. I covered most eventualities.. parents had chance to say no if they wished and we did have a few and like others child was not excluded, bus cropped out or deleted as soon as we had taken it if an accident. as to giving photos on a cd... I had a programme to put a photo slide show on a cd which was possible to lock the pictures so only accessed by me, other parents commented it did not work on pc, but only in a dvd player... but cannot remember name of it, as that PC went belly up and lost the thing.. but as I no longer do them did not worry about it.. but again they al gave additional permission to do this before we made the cd - what surprised us was some of the parents who previously said no to pictures in other children's files were happy to be included in this one... a picture says so much about the child, friendships etc, we never blanked out children.. or faces for files.. same reason as Maz if parents consented to it should not be an issue.. Inge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mukerjee1 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I am very uncomfortable with the notion of 'blacking' out children's faces in photographs. Imagine a child's reaction to seeing this, apart from damaging their self-esteem, as a parent I would be horrified to see my little ones faces 'scrubbed out' like the pixellated images of witnesses on prison documentaries or Crimewatch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Hear hear Maz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Here is my Photography Policy if this helps: Children will be photographed by Pre-school staff. Photos will be used to: Evidence children participating in the curriculum, added to children's Learning Journey folders and for display purposes within the pre-school. Where there is a group of children playing together, photos which may include your child will appear in other children's folders. Photos are stored on a password protected computer, and will not be made available in a digital form to anyone other than the child's parents. Photos are deleted from computer when child leaves the setting. This is attached to a permissions slip which parents sign - never had a 'refuser' yet! Could see that may be a problem if we had a 'Looked After Child' and of course we would make sure to protect their identity...but I could never 'black out' a child's face. Hope that helps Sunnyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I felt traumatised pixellating out a child's face in 'paint' once! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Perhaps it's different for those people who work in urban settings as against those who work in rural settings. I'm guessing that for urban groups, the issue might be greater. In our village everyone has photo's of everyone else's children anyway - most of them are related too. That makes a huge difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Good point Possum.......maybe I tend to forget not everyone's 'out in the sticks' like me! Love your comment about most people being related!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 yeah - we count fingers for additional reasons at our preschool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Reading through this discussion, I wonder, has anyone done a 'risk assessment' and compared the BENEFITS to the 'risks' of the use and sharing of photo's? Maybe we could start with a list of benefits; 1/ Self esteem 2/ a moment captured never to be 'caught' again in the same context/mood 3/ children using camera's themselves ( 'the child's voice/expression ) 4/ children using camera's themselves (ICT) 5/ evidence of learning, fun, and just being I'm sure you can add lots more Now the risks; 1/ LAC (location) 2/ images used for reasons other than for their purpose (exploitation) I'm stuggling here now to think of any more risks.............. Under both comparisons should be considered; 1/ Child's and parents wishes What would you add to the lists? Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Now the risks; 1/ LAC (location) 2/ images used for reasons other than for their purpose (exploitation) I'm stuggling here now to think of any more risks.............. Your number 1 is obviously very valid and this is something that needs to be dealt with according to individual cases. I would completely throw out number 2 though as a nonsense. Really, if anyone does an image search on the internet you can find thousands of photos of children. Why would any parent go to the trouble of scanning and changing photos from their childs learning journal?? Like Maz I would like to see a more common sense approach to these sorts of issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 we had a risk when we had a adopted child with us who was 'in hiding' had name changed and everything. Her real parents only lived 20 miles or so away and might have tracked her down if they'd seen photos. So she wasn't on any that went with anyone else. I think pictures should be used on the same basis as observation, we shouldn't be snap happy just because digital cameras take thousands. There should be a purpose to the picture - a reason for it. We get lots of 'snap' pictures when children use their digital cameras, and they are lovely ones. I think we should just let children 'be', and not be stuffing a camera in their face every 2 seconds, it can be very disruptive. Photos are so commonplace nowadays, I can remember when a picture was really special and every one was treasured. When I was about 8 I can remember my Dad using colour film for the first time - they were very special pictures! Ok, gone off topic here reminiscing - must go and do some work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 You may be interested in this article http://www.teachingexpertise.com/articles/...ct-applies-2930 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Your number 1 is obviously very valid and this is something that needs to be dealt with according to individual cases. I would completely throw out number 2 though as a nonsense. Really, if anyone does an image search on the internet you can find thousands of photos of children. Why would any parent go to the trouble of scanning and changing photos from their childs learning journal?? Like Maz I would like to see a more common sense approach to these sorts of issues. I agree Beau, if I did a 'risk assessment' then No 2 would score very, very, very low. But unfortunately I think the 'fear' of this causes detriment to our childrens freedom to have pictorial representations of moments captured with whoever is around them and not be 'isolated' in a frame without their peers as previously dscussed. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 we had a risk when we had a adopted child with us who was 'in hiding' had name changed and everything. Her real parents only lived 20 miles or so away and might have tracked her down if they'd seen photos. So she wasn't on any that went with anyone else. I think pictures should be used on the same basis as observation, we shouldn't be snap happy just because digital cameras take thousands. There should be a purpose to the picture - a reason for it. We get lots of 'snap' pictures when children use their digital cameras, and they are lovely ones. I think we should just let children 'be', and not be stuffing a camera in their face every 2 seconds, it can be very disruptive. Photos are so commonplace nowadays, I can remember when a picture was really special and every one was treasured. When I was about 8 I can remember my Dad using colour film for the first time - they were very special pictures! Ok, gone off topic here reminiscing - must go and do some work! Good points Cait, and I think it is paramount that the rights of the child are considered when we take photo's. How often have we seen a video, say, on U-Tube where the child has his/her hand up saying "No, I don't want you to" obviously unhappy about having their picture taken ( or video in this example). I would always respect the childs choice, for example if they saw me with the camera and shied away I wouldn't take a picture. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekker Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Ive always included group pictures..duplicating them for each child in the group so all had identical copies. Would hate to have to black out faces and if it was my childs booklet Id hate to be given one like that We have also always allowed parents to take photos of events eg christmas nativity, sponsored events...etc Recently however I have wondered about that as I have been told that lots of the parents photos (of their children but possibly including others in the background or whatever as its a group thing) are being posted on facebook and other social network sites for 'friends' to see. Some are friends anyway so thats up to them but what about the children in the photos who just happened to be there and whose parents do not know they are now on view on the internet! That makes me uncomfortable. I am probably on there too though I have not given my permission and I am not happy about it...I do not have a facebook account so I dont know personally what photos are on there but know that there are quite a few. We either have to stop parents taking these photos (which I dont want to do) or make it very clear they are not to be posted online...and hope people respect that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panders Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Good point Trekker, hadn't properly considered facebook images Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 We don't encourage parents to take photos of prize-giving etc, always happy to pose afterwards with a 'clear' fore & background (and a tidier one too, usually!) But obviously when we go on trips then there's cameras about and we can only hope that parents are sensible. Possibly a not on a newsletter would be helpful in future, about what they should consider before posting images on social networking sites. They may think that only their friends can see them, but I've been directed down lots of avenues on there, looking at photos of people I don't know, to find one where my son's been tagged'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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