Cutting Our Contracted Hours..can They?

[Guest]

Hi all

Well off work at the mo as little boy sick as I am too. But my job share covering so thats ok!!!!

 

Anyway just called supervisor.

 

The current committee are annoyed that the staff have put notice up advertising for new committee members for april (we thought that seeing as they werent doing anything then we would so that it gives current parents a chance discuss it, to attend a meeting etc before being elected!). The chair has told all the current comm members that if they are still interested in doing their current roles to also put their names down as it will have to go to vote if there is more than 1 interested in the particular role...can they do this seeing as none of the current comm have children at the pre-school and ones that have expressed an interest do?

 

Another thing is that chair has requested meeting with superviosr to talk about cutting staff hours . Supervisor and myself are not sure how she thinks she is going to do this. Already at minimum ratio, we already stay behind extra to tidy(now thinking of stopping this and saying that they will have to come and finish off), there are 2 staff that go to lunch and 3 that set up in morning, 3 during the session. If they get rid of our set up lady in the morning (she does an hour every morning without fail helps set up, prepare snack etc) then thats more for 2 staff to do and it will be a struggle, if they get rid of 1 staff at lunch club then potential that staff member may at one time be on their own with the children escorting back to pre-school, being in pre-school if wet play as school has no room for us (big no no), only other thing is they stop paying supervisor for 2 hrs of admin/planning. Can they cut our hours if contracted? sorry none of us in a union.

 

We all feel like letting the pre-school fold (supervisor says she would be better off on dole!) in the hope that the head at the school may step in??!. Appartently only 2 months wags left and we are claiming too much. We are all working our socks off (as im sure you all do) to be told this (a lot we do in own time) and that they still havent sorted it. I know many of you advisd us to see Early Years Team etc and we know the comm have done so but things getting no better. They do not listen to staff suggestions at all. Instead do daft things like employing a teacher as bank staff (who is not qualified so could only cover myself and job share when we actually cover each other!) who apparently told supervisor she has no experience of early years and only wants to do it so she can sociolise and make friends (just moved to area) a she doesnt need the money. Do we really need that when already we have young student and me and my job share all in training. How many is my supervisor expected to train!!?? Must admit that I tend not to bother her with my stuff as have my own DPP buddy for advice!

 

I dont know. All staff would love to do it on our own! Sure we couldnt do any worse??

[Rea]

I dont know about the contracts but I'm pretty sure they can be changed but only after consultation with staff and with agreement. The ACAS site might give you more info on that.

 

How the heck have they only got 2 months wages left?? Thats terrible management.

If you are part of the Pre-school Learning alliance the registered person can speak to Lawcall. I expect this is your chair though so might not be of help to you

I feel like coming over to you to help you sort it out. Its not rocket science to make sure your incoming and outgoing monies match! Are they claiming the education funding properly? It seems strange that your bank balance is so low. What are your fee's, rent, other important outgoings?

 

If the group folds the committee, as the registered providers, are liable for your redundancy pay and for the selling of the groups resources. They need to understand exactly how much this could cost them. Its not just a matter of them allowing things to fall apart and then walking away, as management committee they are your employers and have responsibilities.

 

Officially the committee should advertise for committee. The current committee can stay in their roles if they are voted for, there is nothing to stop new memebrs coming along and being part of the group, if they dont have officers roles they are still committee members with a right to vote. If you're part of the PLA and have adopted their constitution staff are also allowed now to be on the committee and can vote on things that affect the group except for staff wages.

 

I cant think at the moment of anything else to say, I'm still shocked that you might not be paid in 2 months time!

[Cait]

Isn't there something about ratios of parents who are actually parents of children at the preschool though? There used to be

[Rea]

It did used to be like that Cait, but with the new constitution it might have changed. I know at one point an officer could only hold a post for a mximum of 3 years I think, maybe 5? Over the years the PLA realised that people wouldnt go onto committee's especially to hold the treasures post, so they changed it.

It did have to be a percentage of current parents, I cant remember the figure, 60% maybe? You do have to have a certain number of members to be quorat at any meetings otherwise things can be spoken about but not voted on.

 

Marley if you're part of the PLA, I'll see if I can track down the new constitution and have a read. Or, you should have one there.

[Rea]

Wondering about the teacher they've taken on too. Was the job properly advertised and were interviews held? How many people applied? Was the best person given the job?

[Inge]

Committee and places etc does all depend on constitution... but I think this is the one adopted by the committee often way back in time.. just because PLA have a new one does not mean it applies to you unless the committee have adopted it.

 

to know if current committee can stay depends on what it says... ours is not PLA one and is different.

 

Change in hours can be but in consultation this has been mentioned on here recently

 

All parents should be told that there is to be agm and new committee members needed. or votes for committee again depending on constitution as to numbers needed at AGM to make it legal.. ours was 60% of parents with a child currently attending.. so if they came and no child on register they were not actually counted in numbers attending.

 

I can see how they got into financial difficulties.. too many agency staff.... but they may need reminding of their responsibility re redundancy money... trouble is you will not get any new committee members with that hanging over their heads....

 

 

 

Inge

[Guest]

Hiall

Yes im very familiar with the constitution 2008 as have told current comm that we need to have at least 60% of them with child at pre-school (thats still the case) and supervisor is aware that we can also be part of comm but would we be able to kick off another comm member eg i would love to do all the admissions but the admissions sec has been with us for 3 years (recently took her daughter out of pre-school) but is intending on coming back. Not sure how i coud take her position!

 

The reason why only 2 months left is that we had agency deputy for 3 months In the last year we have had deputy leave, agency staff for 3 months while recruiting , original deputy return..lasted 1 month, left, return of agency staff who then got the job and who has now handed in her notice! Its great fun as you can see!

 

Thanks for th info about ACAS...going to check on now.

[Guest]

Wondering about the teacher they've taken on too. Was the job properly advertised and were interviews held? How many people applied? Was the best person given the job?

 

 

says it all really. Would you count a stay of 20 mins chatting to the chair, no interaction with the children or even consultation with the supervisor an intrview...desperation strikes again. Nobody else applied for bank staff position (was advertised as NVQ3 qualified bank staff too). Only got one appliant so far for deputy job but she has apparently been misinformed about wages and hours so not sure if she will be intrested anymore (currently full time).

 

We do have a PA constituition of 2005 or should I say one was signed at ;ast AGM but can anyone get me a copy of the doc for the operational plan???!! Its still the one from th year before. Have copied ythe chair th new PLA 2008 one so she has a copy of it.

 

"All parents should be told that there is to be agm and new committee members needed. or votes for committee again depending on constitution as to numbers needed at AGM to make it legal.. ours was 60% of parents with a child currently attending.. so if they came and no child on register they were not actually counted in numbers attending." Inge does this mean that seeing as they no longer have children at the setting they ar not allowed to vote then?

Edited March 5, 2009 by marley

[Cait]

Here's the model constitution - not time to look at it at the mo as i'm stirring a pan of curry! How many for tea? It's chicken

2008_Model_Pre_School_Constitution_Unincorporated.pdf

[Inge]

we took it to mean just that.. they could be voted onto the committee by current parents as a co opted member but not vote themselves..... but not sure if this was correct...

 

inge

[tess]

Hello - not sure what I can say to help?

 

Yes the committee should advertise for new members, but all parents have a right to join the committee - there is no maximum number of people able to join - just a minimum. (But as staff we also have to gently persuade parents to take part - part of partnership with parents surely???)

 

The agm should be advertised in advance (can't remember how many days, but it's lots) and all parents committee members or not can attend.

 

Good luck and please keep advertising for work. Would willingly employ you - but we're in Hampshire. sorry!.

Your committee really need to value you as staff

[Rea]

An AGM has to be advertised 1 month, 30 days, in advance I think.

[Shiny]

we took it to mean just that.. they could be voted onto the committee by current parents as a co opted member but not vote themselves..... but not sure if this was correct...

 

inge

It says in the constitution that Cait attached that an Affiliated member does have a vote. But again I am not sure what constitution you have?

[Guest]

mmm sounds better than my pizza!

Anyway just checked contract and last point states....

The Employer reserves the right to make reasonable changes to these terms and conditions upon giving one months notice

 

Whats reasonable then?!

[Inge]

ours is an old one and non PLA so slightly different... may have changed in the more recent ones... but it does depend on the one adopted....

 

Inge

[Guest]

Hey according to the constitution we currently have 10 Affiliate members and only 2 family members!

[Guest]

Not less than 60 per cent of the Committee members, including co-opted members, shall at the time of election or co-option be Family Members. In the event that this 60 per cent figure cannot be achieved, the Pre-school may elect Affiliate Members to make up the balance of the Committee subject to the Affiliate Members being approved by the local Branch Executive Committee of the Pre-school Learning Alliance.

 

copied from constituition

[Guest]

7.2 Each Annual General Meeting will be chaired by the Chair or in his/her absence another member of the Committee and which shall:

(a) receive the accounts of the Pre-school for the previous financial year;

( receive an annual report from the Committee;

© elect the new members of the Committee;

(d) transact any other business properly put to the meeting

 

Now thats interesting...what new committe is going to want to take over with our finance?

[purplewednesday1]

Hi

 

Are you a member of NDNA? national assoc day nurseries ... it's quite cheap to join but you get free legal advice - i've used their employemnt help line and they were fabulous.

 

Another thought ... If the existing committee were to cause you to close in 2 months time (because of no more wages), could you come to an agreement that you'll continue with a new committee in place? There are sustainability grants available through LEA's which might tide you over?

 

Hope this helps ... I'm thinking of you

 

pw

[Guest]

In case it is of use to you I have just emailed you a copy of the 2005 constitution.

[Shiny]

Holly35, any chance you could put a copy up here as I think that is the one we have and I would like to outline the differences for the committee before they have to make a choice about adopting the new one?!

[Guest]

In case it is of use to you I have just emailed you a copy of the 2005 constitution.

 

 

Thanks Holly!

[Guest]

Yes I can try to post it later on. Am just off out to celebrate my Eyps results so will do it when I get in. But if I don't do it someone give me a nudge because I do forget stuff!

[Shiny]

Thanks holly35 and I hope you enjoy your celebrations, you deserve them!!!!!

[Guest]

Yes I can try to post it later on. Am just off out to celebrate my Eyps results so will do it when I get in. But if I don't do it someone give me a nudge because I do forget stuff!

 

 

Just caught this info on the other thread....congratulations Holly

Now stop trying to sort out my problems and go have a glass (or two!) of wine!

[blondie]

hi on our contracts we have addition that syas they can change our working times or contracted hours with four weeks notice - does yours have anything like that.

i thought that only parents with children actually attending the pre-school can be voted as officers on the committee, others whos children have left or are about to start can be on the committee but not officers

hope that you can get something sorted soon - keep us in touch

[HappyMaz]

If you are part of the Pre-school Learning alliance the registered person can speak to Lawcall. I expect this is your chair though so might not be of help to you

I seem to remember hali saying that Lawcall told her that they are not allowed to advise staff!

 

The Employer reserves the right to make reasonable changes to these terms and conditions upon giving one months notice

As you quite rightly say, what is reasonable? If you were to go to an industrial tribunal Acas would look at whether the employer followed good practice in making the change to the contract, and whether it was fair and reasonable.

 

Another thought ... If the existing committee were to cause you to close in 2 months time (because of no more wages), could you come to an agreement that you'll continue with a new committee in place? There are sustainability grants available through LEA's which might tide you over?

I think there is also a mechanism whereby the group and its assets can be sold in the event that a committee cannot be found, or if the group becomes insolvent. The PLA will be able to advise - your development worker should have all the gen!

 

It does rather sound to me marley that things are conspiring against you - the lord knows how you all manage to stay as positive as you are! I really hope that you can find your way through this mess - or alternatively that you can find another group who can better exploit your talents (and not just for firefighting!).

 

Maz

[Guest]

I seem to remember hali saying that Lawcall told her that they are not allowed to advise staff!

 

 

Maz

 

you're right HappyMaz, I called Lawcall a couple of months ago and they told me they would only talk to committee. My chairman then had to call and ask the same question, very annoying. mrsW

[Guest]

OK I am back from the night out but I have had a couple of glasses so bear with me if this doesn't work!

PLA_Constitution_2005_eg.doc