Guest Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 It's that time of year again. I'm trying to decide whether to hire a coach or coaches to a local attraction. I feel on grounds of equal opportunity it should be offered to all children who attend. The problems are: 1) Because we are a preschool, they don't all attend in a consistent pattern 2) To meet ratios we tend to require parents/carers to come, too 3) Because the sessions are now all funded, presumably we can only ask for voluntary contributions from funded children? [The NEG would nowhere near meet the cost, and what happens if a child is funded for the morning but not the afternoon?] 4) And we'd be over ratio, so presumably we'd be in the same position as for whole group events in setting, such as parties? 5) And we'd have to offer a session to any funded child electing not to go, which again makes it potentially economically unviable. 6) If I don't book the coaches very soon the problem will be solved anyway!! I feel we don't do enough of this sort of thing, but it's such a hassle. Am I making life too complicated? Can anyone see a simpler way? BTW the only options in town are the library, the train station and the local playing field! HELP!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 It's truly a nightmare, this outing business, isn't it? I can't face doing it because of all the reasons you've said, and probably a few hundred more! The only thing we do is go to a local farm park (1 mile away) which has a brilliant maize maze, animals, barns, etc. We tell families that the staff are all going, we'll bring all the picnic food, and we hope to see you there. This way, I don't have to organise any money, bookings, transport, etc. and the parents get there by themselves, sharing lifts, helping each other out, etc. It's great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 I stopped doing trips fpr all those reasons. If we did go anywhere we asked the parents to meet us. Like Helen says there's no hassle regarding fee's, coaches, ratios. The council run nursery I work in now never does trips, festivals, visits from outside and Ofsted gave them a good with outstanding areas. Makes you wonder doesnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 This is so sad. Years ago we used to take the children by train to London to se the christmas lights, it was really hard work, organising the staf, pushchairs etc, But worth while to see childrens faces when we got there.I don't think i woulkd even be able to think about a prip like that anymore. But we did go on a train ride to see santa at christmas and are going to a farm park to see new lambs in a couple of weeks. The Nursery Education Magazine has a god risk assessment form for outings which you can download from the shcolastic site. A pre-visit visit is a must, preferably 2 members of staff ( these are usually free, take your family) OR team up with local recption class and let school do all the paperwork, have done this before and worked amazingly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 We broke with tradition last year, having previously always been on trips, organised coaches etc. Last year was different! We were invited to a Forest Arts Festival (part of Forest School) but it was only open to 3 year olds and upwards, but the coach fee was reimbursed by LEA. So, we took 3 & ups to Forest Arts Festival and then we organised a trip to our local park. It has a half decent play area and also a fab little knee-deep outdoor pool. Like Helen we arranged to meet everyone there. People came on the bus, shared cars etc and the feedback was we had the best trip ever!!! I took enough pots of bubbles for everyone to have one, plus a Kitkat (Cheap but in date) and everyone was happy happy happy - none more so than me because there was the minimum of organisation! The only pitfall of any trip is THE GREAT BRITISH WEATHER! Lets hope we have another summer like last year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Hi - just felt I had to share what we have done this term - NEVER EVER considered or gave the slightest thought to what we tried this term (JAN - APRIL) yet we will certainly be continuing to do it now we've had so much success - Like you we are a sessional Pre School, children attend different days etc, and our policy for outings is Maximum 2 children to 1 adult, we also claim the NEG so had the issue re; costs etc. We have been on 2 trips already with a further 1 planned before Easter, and 1 planned in April!!!!!!!!!!!! This time last year we would have said NO WAY! one trip a year is enough stress! and it always has been! But our theme is all about our immediate town - so we contacted various people and expalined that we wanted to use our sessions to give children 'hands on' experience of our local amenities, we asked could we make a visit to them (eg fire station, library, parish church, sports centre, football club etc.) explained that we ran on a tight budget. Everyone whom we contacted were really helpful and the entrance fee was £0.00 to all the places we have visited (look around there are lots of free places to visit)- so the only cost involved was the coach. We had been told about a bus company who did competitive rates for schools etc via our LEA. Vehicles with 3 point seatbelts too. We told the parents that our Pre School provision for that day was in the form of a trip and all children were invited regardless of whether it was their session or not BUT we emphasisied that to make this possible we needed to have as much parent/carer help as poss. We have had more than enough adults to provide correct ratios whilst out for every trip. We couldn't believe the response. In order to cover the cost of the bus we asked for a donation (minimal amount). The first trip was so succesful we couldn't believe that we hadn't tapped into our local free resources earlier. Trips can be a nightmare to organise - but this term we have proved otherwise - short trips that only last the length of the session, lots of learning opportunities and we have built up much stronger friendships with our parents too. I really can't believe I am writing this, as in the past whaen someone mentioned the @Pre School trip' all the staff used to sigh (or scream!?) oh no! Be brave - try it - we did, and it worked - please PM me if you need a chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Mist agree we have stopped these too for all reasons given, big one being unable to charge for funded children and having to open the session anyway for those not going. we do have a Seaquarium within walking distance but even the entrance costs for that is out of our reach without parents contributing. we have a picnic in local park, all staff go to the park and invite children parents and family to join them, as said they share lifts although in our case we can walk to it from pre-school. heres hoping for a good sunny dry day. Also being by the sea (well perhaps once a day sometime we see water but lots and lots of sand and mud very tidal here)we have also done this on the Beach and had a great day but this really is very weather dependant. Inge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 hi all, we post a notice on the door and tell the parents of the planned MAJOR trip out. I ask each parent to put their name and child's down on the list of wanting to come, from this I work out the total cost which is always mad money!!! Then normaly I ask for a contribution towards the entry cost. Playgroup pays for the transport and subs the entrance fee. We encourge the parents or family member to come along, this helps with the ratio and is good team building with staff and parents and children. Staff always come but we do not advertise the fact that staff will be able to take sole charge of indvidual children. Although we do arange games & snacks and staff lead their group around, staff are in contact with each other and we arange to all meet up for lunch and games etc. If you show the workings out most parents do not mind putting a pound or so towards their day out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 we only go locally and ask all parents/carers to attend also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 I always do a large long trip out with coach etc. I calculate the cost of coach, and entrance fee and extra staff wages, then divide it by a maximum of 52 children that we are registered for. we then make sure that the amount we charge the paying children is not to much above the cost of their normal fees then charge! an extra for the grant children. for most of the grant children its a full day so they pay for the other hours. we find that the younger paying children don't go anyway so it is usually all grant children with a few extra's. as long as we have covered all our costs then its usually a brilliant day out. We ask for parent volounteers and pick the "good ones" who we ask to be the children who are going on to school, their parents have been with us the longest and it stops the clingy mum's from coming and not looking after other children. We have also done morning trips to our town centre on the bus. Quite a sight 52 children getting on the bus. especially as only the adults pay as they are all under 5!!!! we generally manage to get on 2 buses,, we catch what ever comes along. great morning as we go to a indoor play area have a drink wear them all out and get them back intime for lunch. We never have problems with our mums but we do choose our more "helpful" ones as they have to understand that they are not just looking after their own child but others as well. Its always alot of work but thoroughly enjoyable for the children and I think the parents appreciate the work and organisation that goes into it. Wouldn't stop it even though my staff do groan at the thought but enjoy it in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 We have a similar problem, last years outing had a very poor turnout, it was a pain to organise, on top of everything else. Parents of the non funded children all asked for a refund of their session fees. I think that the problem is increasing because more and more of our children are brought in my childminders. That said we took one session for a walk to the local old folks home to sing for them, which went down well with both groups. We also took the children for a trip to the local library, but the costs of the bus, was so much that we limited the number of parents who accompanied us to the minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharonash Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Hi Steve I'm hassling you this week arent I what with the willows and now the outings! Which farm do you go to as I am thinking of going to Drusillas and have heard mixed reports? being nosy now is it your nursery and are you based in Lewes? Just wondering whether we can come for a visit? we have so much competition and bitterness in sunny Worthing when it comes to working with other settings! sad isnt it? Off on a mission tomorrow to find the willows! Sharon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Thank you for all your replies, folks. It's so reassuring to know other people face the same issues! We had a staff meeting tonight and I think we'll probably go for more local trips, the local home for the elderly [we have good links there anyway], maybe a Funday on our premises, and we'll consider going to the farm we've often gone to one formal outings, but maybe do it on a Saturday which could solve a lot of the problems. Thanks for the offer, myhenroxanne. May well pm you tomorrow - I'm too tired tonight after staff meeting & then downloading the EYFS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Hi Sharon - No problem. The nursery belongs to Helen. She's going to PM you about the farm she visits (much smaller than Drusillas, which was great when I last went, although that was many years ago) and coming to have a look around Fiddlesticks, which she has no problem with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 I used to go to Druscilla's so much and it was great. Of course, haven't been for 11 years so can't vouch for it now. That's just brought back many happy memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 we have been out this morning, the children walked excellently holding the rope and each child with their hi viz jacket on. We trundled through our town and up to the supermarket to buy snack items, each child had a list of their requested snack item. All was going so well until an elderly shopper was on a mission and was so intent on getting her biscuits that she pushed into the children then once her rich teas were loaded into her basket she promptly turned around, basket on arm and nearly wiped off two childrens heads! ok so 21 children and seven adults do fill the biscuit ally quite well! It does amaze me how rude or unaware some people can be. Not to worry we all returned with heads still attached and loads of snack to enjoy!!! Not sure which is easier a local outing or a major one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 The meerkats are still at Drusilla's (Is that the right spelling?!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verona Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Is that Fishers Farm you go to Steve/Helen? Sue J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Lesley When i took a small group to the local supermarket a while ago (after phoning to ask permission) an awful elderly lady spoke to me and the two children I had with me, rudely and loudly, saying 'children should not be in here touching all the food' as she pushed her trolley too close to the children - I was so shocked - the children were NOT touching the food, i was telling them the names of the exotic fruit and we were pointing at them. The children became upset - God I wanted to give her piece of my mind - but felt the better example was to just tell the children that the lady was obviously not very well, turn my back on her and move the children along to the fish counter - leaving a kind lady that had overhead her to put her straight in no uncertain terms!!!! Other than that though, all trips have been wonderful for all concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Hi Sue - We have been to Fishers farm a number of times (although only as a family not with Fiddlesticks). The one Helen has taken the nursery to a number of times is a newish home grown one in Lewes itself, called Spring Barn Farm. It's very small but has a really brilliant Maize maze - if you can take the prospect of losing your charges for hours it's a perfect way to spend, well, hours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Hi Sam, I know people want to just get their shopping done and get out! but one shopper can ruin a good trip out! We all promote good manners, to help each other and so on but this is found hard when other adults do not practice what we preach! I guess the world would be very dull if every one was the same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Have been agonising about where to take my 21 reception children possibly with the YR 1 and 2s as well. Last year we went to a nearby organic farm so that the parents could provide the transport but this year we are stumped. The Fire Station would be good but the parking for parents staying with their children would be difficult. How does a trip to the Old Folks home go? We have one near us. Though at my age they might be fed up with old folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 It worked pretty well for us at Christmas, although we took a lot less than 21 one afternoon with a high adult/child ratio. [Preschool; one was just under 2.5 years!] We went on a day when the Day Centre was open because their staff advised they would be more responsive. The children were spoiled rotten with specially made snacks, squash etc - all the stuff we usually ban! The manager said we could hold a sports day or may day celebration there if we liked - a very generous offer but we haven't found a way to take her up on it yet.So you never know where it can lead. One thing did make me think about the next visit. We went in offering our sweet little Christmas songs, with me playing guitar. One gentleman asked if we knew one of the old-time music hall songs. I did just about manage to do it, but I thought about teaching something like 'Daisy, Daisy' to the children for next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 We still organise outings. We hire a coach and the parents have to pay entrance and coach costs. We provide the staff and snack. The children have to bring their own lunch. All funded children can be accompanied by staff other children are asked to bring a parent if they can. The trips provide the children with what they recieve every day in the setting. We class the coach and entrance fee as extra services provided. The parents have an option of paying weekly. We always inform Ofsted we are out on a trip and they haven't questioned us us YET I hope we dont have to change because the children get so much out of a simple trip to the zoo. These days are also very important for some of our families as this is the only opportunity to take their children further than the local park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 we went oyut on Friday, all parents present..thank goodness they were as they all went home by 12.30 as it was sooo cold..so it meant staff could too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 WE are wanting to go to chester zoo, but it could be a nightmare to organise..... so far i am thinking of doing it on a friday, (so staff and children have weekend to recover!), we are thinking for equality of inviting all children, but this would be dependent on having a fair few parent helpers..... but logistics of it are hard.... can't seem to find coach company that are happy to take all the children and their car seats, can't guarantee parent helpers.... and since on outings we have a 1 - 2 ratio it means we need loads of helpers.... i know children would get loads out of it, but can't help thinking is it really worth the hastle.... anyone else done a big trip before and survived LOL, any tips? Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Hi Dawn We did Chester zoo about three years ago, just after the Easter break. We were lucky in that we had a grandmother who is a "friend" of the zoo and goes there at least once a week so knows it like the back of her hand. We were doing patterns as our topic at the time so she planned a route around the zoo so that we could see as many animals with patterns as possible and still see many of the favourites. I have to say though it was exhausting! It is such a huge place and the animals the children really want to see like the elephants, lions, tigers etc are pretty much spread around. I don't think we would have managed to see one half of what we did if it hadn't been for this grandmother. I would recommend you go and have a scout round yourself before you book. As to car seats I found this on the Department of Transport website: "A child required to use a child seat or booster in a car must do so in a minibus only if a suitable one is available. A typical car child seat is not suitable for a typical minibus seat - which is narrower and less deep. A seat is not available if it is not suitable. As a general rule, therefore, the children will use the belts provided, which are typically adjustable. The operator is not required to provide suitable child seats. The new rules do not yet apply in respect of children travelling in bigger coaches and buses, but they will be the same eventually as they are for minibuses." So in actual fact you wouldn't be able to use the children's car seats anyway. Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 the bit re the car seats is useful to know linda, thanks..... just thinking practically then i don't know how keen many of our parents would be with us transporting children without car seats, looks like chester zoo may be a no no. Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 We go to Colchester Zoo. They have a route map on their web site maybe your zoo has one. What about the coach companies that do the school runs as long as you are out after and back before school time they are usually more than willing. We dont have a problem with parents wanting to come. One year we had to book another coach and didn't have any children going with out a parent. We worked with small groups of children while the parents took it in turns going for a coffee and we were able to have a nice lunch in peace. As suggested go on a friday. It's good to have the day after off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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