SEND question

[finleysmaid]

Hi guys i wonder if you might be able to tell me what the system is in your borough for identifying and assisting children with SEND needs like ADHD.

So if you feel a child has an additional need that has not been identified how do you go about getting help for them?

How quickly do you expect a response and how would the support be delivered to your setting?

 

.....this is purely for my benefit ! i would just like to know what support (if any) settings are receiving.

Thanks

[sunnyday]

Hi fm - I will pm you

[Rafa]

We can make a referral for Area SenCo to visit and agree/disagree that their may be a special need.  The referral needs reems of evidence before any help/support is given.  Very time consuming! They meet monthly to discuss referrals, well they did, not sure now how frequently due to cutbacks!  Shall have to look that up as have a referral in mind!

we can also make direct referal to Speech and Language, quite a wait 10 weeks + before appointment..

[sunnyday]

Dear Rafa - 10 weeks - wow that would be heavenly - currently 12 months here

[Panders]

Yes SALT  in my area is about a 16 week wait for initial assessment.  Self referral, although one we did recently the parent has been contacted by the Speech Unit and been "put off" as they don't think from the information they have that  its severe enough.  

I can request an area SENCo to come in for a chat etc. and agree whether there is a reason to proceed that will happen some time during the term I have contacted them depending upon her diary but she is very good at a chat on the phone or an e a.  , she will also offer some advice as to what to do.  We then take the child to a LIFT meeting (Local Inclusion Forum Team) after lots of info filled in.  This meeting is with main Specialist Teaching Service and after discussion directly with them they will offer advice and a specialist teacher to come out to the setting.   LIFT meetings are about once a month during term time and we are encouraged to attend even if we do not have a child in need.   BTW, we don't physically take the child with us, its just a term that's used.

 

 

 

[louby loo]

We can direct  out SaL parents to a weekly drop in centre - although that's actually the whole LA area, therefore 'local'  local  ones works out about once every 4-6 weeks.  The drop in sessions are heavily over subscribed though, with no guarantee of being seen. However this depends on the parent taking them! I'm pretty sure many of our parents  would be more than happy for the staff to take child rather than going themselves.

Other referrals are through GPs. To be fair they do seem rather good, but again that might be due to kind of 'no our problem- but we'll put you on the list to see 'xxxxxx'  attitude. 

We've been to two outcomes meeting this week for children starting school, my bugbear with these is -we have not been given access to the reports beforehand- even the parents only got them a few hours before meetings. This means we can't really study them in any detail so go in blind.

I'm putting in a complaint about that though as we are supposed to have them in advance.

The drop in sessions are assessment of needs, they then get appointments if needed, not sure of waiting time.

Edited April 19, 2018 by louby loo
should add...

[finleysmaid]

1 hour ago, Rafa said:

 The referral needs reems of evidence before any help/support is given.  

SO how long on average would you say you need to gather evidence for?

 

23 minutes ago, Panders said:

 

I can request an area SENCo to come in for a chat etc. and agree whether there is a reason to proceed that will happen some time during the term I have contacted them depending upon her diary but she is very good at a chat on the phone or an e a.  , she will also offer some advice as to what to do.  We then take the child to a LIFT meeting (Local Inclusion Forum Team) after lots of info filled in.  This meeting is with main Specialist Teaching Service and after discussion directly with them they will offer advice and a specialist teacher to come out to the setting.   LIFT meetings are about once a month during term time and we are encouraged to attend even if we do not have a child in need.   BTW, we don't physically take the child with us, its just a term that's used.

 

 

 

this seems like quite a good system! identify a need , get confirmation get some specialist support whoohoo! great that you have a network system ..do you get any funding for attending these meetings? and who takes the lead once a need is identified?

 

22 minutes ago, louby loo said:

 

Other referrals are through GPs.

We've been to two outcomes meeting this week for children starting school, my bugbear with these is -we have not been given access to the reports beforehand- even the parents only got them a few hours before meetings. This means we can't really study them in any detail so go in blind.

I'm putting in a complaint about that though as we are supposed to have them in advance.

The drop in sessions are assessment of needs, they then get appointments if needed, not sure of waiting time.

Who do the GP's refer on to /what services do you have??

 

[louby loo]

8 minutes ago, finleysmaid said:

 

Who do the GP's refer on to /what services do you have??

 

GPs refer to peadiatrition at our Child Development Centre (CDC)  from there they are referred to appropriate clinics:  CDAC -  child dev assessment centre- usually social and commination needs- up to 12 month wait for full assessment. Behaviour clinics - ADHD type referrals, not sure about that waiting time. Physical needs as appropriate OT.

Once they are registered at the CDC, this usually triggers the beginning of outside agencies, and we 'may' get specialist teachers involved before formal assessments confirmed.

We do have the usual Area Sendco- but they cannot really do a lot anyway unless a parent agrees. They offer moral support really, but do offer advice on how to word forms etc to get things moving quicker.

[sunnyday]

1 hour ago, Panders said:

Yes SALT  in my area is about a 16 week wait for initial assessment.  Self referral, although one we did recently the parent has been contacted by the Speech Unit and been "put off" as they don't think from the information they have that  its severe enough.  

I can request an area SENCo to come in for a chat etc. and agree whether there is a reason to proceed that will happen some time during the term I have contacted them depending upon her diary but she is very good at a chat on the phone or an e a.  , she will also offer some advice as to what to do.  We then take the child to a LIFT meeting (Local Inclusion Forum Team) after lots of info filled in.  This meeting is with main Specialist Teaching Service and after discussion directly with them they will offer advice and a specialist teacher to come out to the setting.   LIFT meetings are about once a month during term time and we are encouraged to attend even if we do not have a child in need.   BTW, we don't physically take the child with us, its just a term that's used.

 

 

 

Oh how can it be 16 weeks in your corner of Kent and 12 months in mine 

[Panders]

perhaps you are short on speech therapists in your neck of the woods.  TBH 16 weeks seems a long time!   Can't imagine a year's wait.    

[finleysmaid]

reading all this is really fascinating...surely there has to be a better way to get help to these families quicker! maybe if we were all seen as professional enough to know when a child is not reaching their developmental goals?

i wonder what the fastest time for a referral has been!

Often of course we have all spent several months, prior to any intervention from outside agencies, helping parents, helping their children and observing closely what they are having difficulties with. Twice recently it has been suggested that if the children are having problems it must be our 'fault'!

[louby loo]

33 minutes ago, finleysmaid said:

reading all this is really fascinating...surely there has to be a better way to get help to these families quicker! maybe if we were all seen as professional enough to know when a child is not reaching their developmental goals?

I totally agree.  It also winds me up immensely when someone finally comes in to observe the child, and after watching the child for all of five minutes they say 'you  need to use xxxxxxx'.   (9/10 it's visuals).    I feel like saying .....gosh- I hadn't even thought of that!

 

[sunnyday]

10 hours ago, Panders said:

perhaps you are short on speech therapists in your neck of the woods.  TBH 16 weeks seems a long time!   Can't imagine a year's wait.    

Yes I know, wasn't a 'real' question, just so frustrated with the situation here

[Panders]

17 hours ago, finleysmaid said:

 

 

this seems like quite a good system! identify a need , get confirmation get some specialist support whoohoo! great that you have a network system ..do you get any funding for attending these meetings? and who takes the lead once a need is identified?

 

I never received any kind of funding over the 6 months or so we were involved.  In fact, at the LIFT meeting I looked around the table and thought I was probably the only one there not being paid!   Once need identified, Specialist Teaching Service  come in, and we would follow what they suggest, I suppose - never got that far, our little one had a lot of family issues and mum needed him to have more time at a setting, so she chose to move him.   Early Help had urged her to apply for EHC, so that made things very involved and then he was declined as not being severe enough, but I have a feeling that  at his next setting it was all being reviewed again.

 

 

[Rafa]

On 19 April 2018 at 18:38, sunnyday said:

Dear Rafa - 10 weeks - wow that would be heavenly - currently 12 months here

Yes apparently we are very lucky in our county! Well I say 10 weeks that was last year when I had referrals, since then I know that they have lost lots of therapists and most are only part time, so now who knows!

 However, it is quite a drawn out process over all and therefore frustrating.

for instance:. Generally when a need is identified we are advised to do 'Watchful Waiting'  let's say on average a term but depends on how often we see them!  Some only attend 6 hours pw.

During this period we are advised to have in place strategies to support  - Assess, Plan Do, Review - another term gone by.  We have to show that we have DONE EVERYTHING WE CAN!!!  then........

complete referral for outside agencies ( compiling all the evidence, photocopied , parents permission etc.) 

once it's gone to Panel they decide which Outside agency best fits the need eg Ed Psych, Salt, Paed etc.

Generally I find it takes a school year to get any help and support from anyone other than us!

I am that unqualified Ed Psych/Speech and Language/Behaviour Management Therapist!! 😏  Ta Dah! 

I have a two year old Eal with (to me) very obvious autistic traits. GP says No,  Mum concerned and am now on the start of the cycle to get help!! 😩 Quite frankly dreading it.

 

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Edited April 20, 2018 by Rafa