Manager on site at all times

[Guest]

Hello everyone, this is my first ever post !!

 

The owner of the Nursery I am Manager of (who pops in twice a year if we are lucky and has no childcare background) has told myself or the deputy to be at the Nursery from 7.15am until 6.30pm every day as she wants a Manager on site at all times. The Deputy has a child at school so can only do 9.00 till 5.00pm which means I have to do the full 7.15 till 6.30 5 days a week!! And heaven forbid I should want a holiday or a day off!!

Any way I just wanted to know if anyone has any documentation or anything to say that a Manager doesn't need to be on the premises from when it opens to when it closes and that as long as there is a senior or level 3 present it is ok. Surely a sign of a good Nursery is when it runs well when the Manger is not present.

 

Thank you xxxx

[louby loo]

I maybe wrong, but it is my understanding that either manager or deputy always onsite.

Have you checked in the EYFS documents?

I'm preschool, so never really been an issue- but can see how it's not so easy with full day-care. However that said in every full day nursery I have worked in the manger and deputy have always done early/late shifts.

Edited September 9, 2014 by louby loo

[Stargrower]

I suppose the issue is that your deputy can't cover the beginning and end of the day, so you can't have one of you doing 'earlies' and the other 'lates'. Would it be possible for you to have time off during the day? I don't think this is a great solution though- I wouldn't want to do it then have to go back to work at the end of the day! I don't know if there is any legislation that limits the number of hours worked in a day? As owner and manager, I work those kind of hours, but that is my choice.

[sunnyday]

So......what do you current contracts say?

[Masha]

I've been wondering this myself lately.

Like Stargrower, I'm an owner/manager, so my hours aren't regulated as such. I have an excellent deputy who steps up if I am on holiday, or otherwise out of the nursery, but surely she is entitled to a lunch break?

Or if my deputy is on holiday, does that mean I can't leave the nursery to attend meetings, go to the bank etc?

WhiteRose, your nursery is open nearly 54 hours a week by my calculations. The working time regulations say something (I can't remember what exactly) about not working over 48 hours a week.

It's a difficult one though as I always feel like Ofsted expect us to be here every minute that we are open...

I'm not much help then

[Greenfinch]

Are you currently working from 7.15 - 6.30 everyday? What does your contract say? (as sunnyday asks above) and other staff too?

What happens when you are on holiday ?

I would look up legal requirements either in gov.uk site or acas as employer has duty to meet legal requirements vis-a-vis breaks,working hours etc

I'm also with Stargrower as the issue wouldn't be a problem if the deputy was working one/other end of each day as normally happens in settings.

Hard to comment as each setting is unique but obviously someone needs to be the named(and paid!) person in charge at all times which is usually the manager or deputy - I hope you manage to resolve this soon, it sounds very stressful?

Crossed posts with Masha! Yes, too many hrs then...

Edited September 9, 2014 by Greenfinch

[louby loo]

Could you have a 'second' deputy. We actually have two, they job share and are paid according which role they are working.

[LKeyteach]

I would agree that the EYFS does require there to be a manager or deputy onsite at all times. You do need someone with authority to make tough decisions in times of crisis which we all hope will never happen but could.

So first of check you contract for your contracted hours and then you need to contact your owner and talk her through the long hours you work. Working those hours you will burn yourself out.

A further solution could be by having a management team supporting the deputy and one their roles would be deputising.

Whiterose I think you should talk to the owner because you will end up feeling that you are being taken advantage over and it would be such a shame to get to time where you do not want to go to work. If the owner only visits twice a year and doesn't have EY background then she probable does not realise your predicament. So give it a go and talk to her and let us know how you get on.

[Guest]

Was told that there had to be a deputy on site and suitably qualified to step up if I as manager wasnt there..dont know if this helps

[Guest]

Hi WhiteRose,

I have a Deputy Manager as well as another Senior Member of Staff and between the 3 of us we always cover the opening hours to be sure there is someone present that can run the setting where necessary. This might mean that if my deputy is on duty until 6pm and I am supposed to finish at 4.30 but stay late as I have work to do, she does not interrupt and handles situations herself even though I am on the premises as she is "in charge". I am lucky with being able to trust her with the running and supervising of busy times.

I would also suggest a meeting with the directors to make your point heard and simple suggest training up a third in charge to help cover those long days! Otherwise you will fall asleep on the job at some point.

Good Luck!

[Poohshouse]

I am a manager and have a deputy. We also have 3 Seniors, who are Acting deputies, they step up should myself or the deputy not be in/around. It doesn't happen often but this solves the Ofsted problem. They are all trusted, good staff and are more than capable. They are paid slightly more, but then the senior role has a different salary anyway

Bring back the days when you needed a 'fit person' on the premises, was easier to manage and clearer for all!

[Guest]

Hi - I actually spoke to OFSTED about this - as manager I do not work every day, there is a named deputy - my question was what if she was ill on one of my days off their response was:

Their only concern was that there was a person who in my judgement was capable and qualified to take charge!

EYFS says

"The provider must ensure there is a named deputy who, in their judgement, is capable and qualified to take charge in the manager’s absence".

I don't think it's humanly possible to forsee every eventually - i certainly wouldn't be putting in early and late shifts every day!!

Edited September 12, 2014 by Ancaster

[Guest]

As someone else has said - we have a 'Management team' made up of myself, my deputy and 2 other senior members of staff. One of us is always there. As we al have our own children and we are open all day 645-6, it would be impossible for myself or my deputy alone to be there at all times. If you have an EYP, they would be classed as a suitable person to deputise aswell

[Guest]

Anyone working over 48hours is supposed to sign a letter saying they are willing to and not being forced to. your owner is already breaking this law and in the event where you had a falling out then you could have a case. personally , i think the other deputy who starts at 9am should be starting earlier and you should be starting later and doing a max of 48 hours at most. I agree get a 3rd up to speed to cover sick, hols etc but at same time you need to get employee facts about number of hours allowed.Deputy/manager roles dont often fit around school hours so maybe its time to have a get together to resolve it...

[finleysmaid]

I use opportunities to develop my level 5's as 'named' deputies when myself or my deputy cannot be there. We use it as a learning opportunity and one of us would be on the end of the phone if really needed. Last year i had to have a couple of weeks off at the beginning of term...they took it in turns to be the leader for the day