Unnanounced visitor policy

[narnia]

Does anyone have a copy that I could look at? Mine apparantly isn't good enough, so I have to rewrite it

I also have to find ways of ensuring unannounced visitors cannot get onto the premises

 

[Cait]

There's something in the updated PSLA policy for ensuring children's safety on the premises. Do you have that?

[narnia]

no............

[Cait]

Er. Ok. I don't have a specific policy for just that, but have sent you a pm with some ideas of what you could include

[woodlands1997]

We have a visitor policy. Not an unannounced one though!!! Anyone could walk down our lane and to the gate and they could get in to the outside area but there is a sign on the gate clearly stating no unauthorised visitors and staff will go to the gate if they are not recognised and we are outside. Not sure what a policy would say to be honest x

[Mouseketeer]

ohhhh i don't have one of them, and have never been asked where my one of them is by anyone ever...announced or unannounced, you could put 'we do not allow entrance to un-announced persons' then when 'O' comes you can just hold policy up to window

 

If you don't have it no one can find fault with it

Edited July 29, 2014 by Mouseketeer

[finleysmaid]

i dont have one either but have just checked the psla policy booklet (2012 stat framework edition) and it mentions arrivals in the setting...i'm guessing that's it. !

[narnia]

Mousketeer, I'd like to say I agree with you, but it is in my report that I have to do one............

[Mouseketeer]

just highlights the inconsistencies again

[Stargrower]

Now if we all amend our policies to say we don't allow access to unannounced visitors where does that leave Mrs O?

Tell us when you're coming or don't come in at all!

[narnia]

I like your thinking

[caffinefreak]

When Ofsted (Trident or Tribal or whoever they are) inspected us, the inspector did not have the correct ID so I followed our policy and called Ofsted to verify that she was supposed to be inspecting us. It took 25 minutes to get through on the phone (I've waited up to 45 before!) and then I was passed from Ofsted to Trident/Tribal and back again. The whole process took over half an hour and the inspector reminded me 4 times through the day that I had 'held her up' in the morning... we got inadequate, I clearly got her back up and it showed her up infront of the Ofsted inspector who was quality assuring her (who DID have the right ID) :angry:

Edited July 29, 2014 by caffinefreak

[narnia]

Woodlands...........same here, a footpath runs down two sides of our premises, there's a pub next door too so I have to do risk assessments for those as well.

[Guest sn0wdr0p]

Good for you Caffinefreak.

[Cait]

That's dreadful, caffeinefreak. I would have thought she would have been impressed! I did quite the opposite in our last inspection! She arrived at the same time as everybody else and came in through the outer door, I saw her come in and smiled and said good morning, as I recognised her, and brain computed that as someone who I knew and was with a child. She got through into the preschool where she came up against staff with sign in book who did challenge her and directed her to where I was in the office.

 

OH used to regularly ask who inspects the inspectors to ensure they are examining at the same level? If we are having joint observations now to ensure that we are seeing things at the same level, shouldn't they have those too? I have only ever had one inspector, and you have to solely rely on their judgement, whereas two (although more intimidating perhaps) would share a judgement

[woodlands1997]

So is having a risk assessment OK Narnia? Or should I be creating an unannounced visitor policy I wonder??

[Mouseketeer]

I did have an inspectors inspector come along on day2 of a very early inspection, I was phoned on the first day of inspection to ask if it was ok and not to let the inspector know they were coming ....at least the inspector didn't have to worry all night that they were going to be inspected the day ......it didn't matter that I had too

[caffinefreak]

We weren't given the chance to object, one was there to inspect us and one was there to quality assure her, the second one was nothing to do with our judgement, it was all down to the one lady's opinion and she clearly didn't appreciate me checking her ID xx

[narnia]

yes, have an unannounced, or more correctly an unauthorised visitor policy. I told the publican I had to risk assess his business and he laughed

Edited July 30, 2014 by narnia

[narnia]

and i have to ensure that unauthorised people cannot gain access to the premises...........................so, out goes Mrs Ofsted, then the electricity man, the delivery man, the postman ( unless i have ordered something myself, I guess)?, the lady who brings leaflets for a mums group, any prospective parents......................really, unless I turn our lovely setting into Alcatraz, how do i do that.............

[woodlands1997]

You can't, it would be impossible without putting up a ten foot metal fence all around!! I have only just updated our policies in line with new eyfs statutory guidelines (with the help of ndna templates and guidance!!!) and they don't have an unauthorised visitors policy! But they have one for just about anything else so it can't be a common thing we are expected to have. Our risk assessment mentions unauthorised visitors but that's it. I would make a policy but to be honest I don't really know what it would say!? I have been to numerous settings where the public could theoretically access children by whipping them over a low enough fence if not properly supervised so it's not like you're one of a kind :-(

[Fredbear]

But surely if these people are not crossing your threshold then there is no risks.

It is totally ridiculous to suggest you can pre-empt everybody that might arrive at your door.

It's how you would deal with it isn't it.

We have the milkman, postman, gas man, parish council persons, leaflet drop offs from the HV team, Children Centres, Kidaround, Extended services, what do we say sorry i am unable to open the door to talk to you.

So what about prospective parents/ children. Surely you are responsible to authorise their presence and secure the safety thereof.

Is your setting in a multi-used building Narnia.

It makes my blood boil thinking of the stupidness of this.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Fredbear

[narnia]

Ok, the actual wording is :

Action:

• ensure that unauthorised persons are unable to enter the premises
• ensure that no one can enter the premises without the knowledge of a person who is caring on the premises ( compulsory and voluntary parts of register)

I have to do this by the 24th of this month. The letter was typed on 25th and was received on 29th!

[Cait]

Ok, the actual wording is :

Action:

 

• ensure that unauthorised persons are unable to enter the premises
• ensure that no one can enter the premises without the knowledge of a person who is caring on the premises ( compulsory and voluntary parts of register)

I have to do this by the 24th of this month. The letter was typed on 25th and was received on 29th!

I would perhaps say 'the lead responsible person' rather then 'a person who is caring' as that could be misconstrued.

[narnia]

Well Cait, you and me both, but that's the wording they have used in their letter

[Cait]

Well Cait, you and me both, but that's the wording they have used in their letter

Bizarre. Someone who is caring could be a grieving parent coming to snatch their child! Far too woolly.

 

This brings me in mind of a policy I was made to write a while ago, an exclusions policy. I looked all over the place but couldn't find one. I finally rang PSLA for help and they were appalled and put a small bit in their magazine. I did write it, but it was never adopted, just filed in the back of the ring binder for if I was ever asked for it. I suppose that's what you are doing with this, really.

 

I'm impressed with the time frame they have given you!

Edited July 31, 2014 by Cait

[woodlands1997]

So the premises I presume is everywhere, outside and in? What about if you have a low fence (can't remember exactly but is there where this has come from for you?) do they want you to build it higher???? Or did she give no reasonable explanation of how this is achievable?

[narnia]

one said the fence was too low, as a child, esecially a child with SEN, could vault over it, or a child be snatched by an estranged parent. However, one of the inspectors who visited, did a previous inspection with us. same fence, same premises, no changes and in her report she commented on how safe and secure we are here! I have mentioned that in my complaint. However, I have now had even higher fences fitted at a cost so far of £500 for materials ( no labour charged as my wonderful son dropped everything and did it). She didn't give any suggestions of how to acheive the 100% safety that she requires

[Guest]

so how would this work when you go out and about say to the park or the local shops?

 

Is this with regard to the workman working outside of your setting?

I think you are being harshly judged!

 

with regard to challenging the Ofsted ID and the judgement at the end of that inspection - that is shocking to say the least!

[narnia]

yes, that's exactly wat it's about