trekker Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I just wondered how many days on average does an average staff member have off ...how many do you allow as 'acceptable' ...? I'm just really at the end of my tether with my staff - some of whom have already gone way over the limit...too many days for illnesses and then they take extras for children being ill and smaller part sessions because "oh I could only get an appointment at X o'clock today or it'll be X-day before I can get in...so I'll just have to take the whole morning / afternoon off"...etc etc... there always seems to be an urgent, family emergency, or no change possible, case often giving me notice at the last minute and that I feel I cant say no to because it makes me seem an unsympathetic ogre or that I don't believe them...but its like the boy who cried wolf - how many times do I accept it?? I am constantly waiting for who will be off next knowing that its like a cascade and a few weeks later another will be. I have to beg other staff to cover colleagues and normally they have some reason why they cant (children to look after, appointments to keep) lately ive even had to forgo some of my breaks so that ratios are maintained. Im finding it nigh on impossible to hide my frustration with it all these days...! Back to work interviews are all well and good but I don't see how they can help me reduce absences...Id just like to get through a few months, a term perhaps with all staff working the hours they are supposed to. Is that too much to ask??? I thought if I had some real figures to see how it is elsewhere I may be able to prove that it really isn't just me ...that there is some genuine cause take some more formal steps perhaps? ...what would you do when taking the next step after limits for absence have been exceeded? - our policy says that committee with initial a more formal review..but what would this involve? Anyone have any written procedures for such a meeting? I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I feel I am quite lenient with staff over taking time off but if I feel its taking the p*** i.e.this term I have had a member of staff taking time off for driving test, then I tell them I'm taking it out of their holiday allowance. This has had a knockon effect to all staff thinking twice about taking time off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 We don't work full time so don't really have a problem but we used to. One member of staff did everything you say, its a pain in the neck, but very difficult to stop. How about a staff register on the wall of the staff room or somewhere out of sight or all and sundry, or even not out of sight! Maybe if they can see lots of red crosses against their name it will make them think twice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredbear Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 We are not full-time either, so I try to accommodate any requests if I can. We have all had children that are taking part in an assembly, chosen for district sports etc. But the staff do need to recognise that you also have to keep the place running, comply with ratios and I think more importantly it can have an impact on their key-children, especially if their new to us.( yes we do get the children to interact with all of us). So a while back I did have a staff member that only worked 3 sessions asking quite often to have a day here a day there, generally to help with their children's school trips, so I did have to chat with her about this. Took her awhile to recognise about it being her job with us. I think it was more about her not wanting to let her children go on the trips without her, although they were more than capable of doing so. So after my ramble a bit of give and take springs to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 one of the things you might like to try is getting them to arrange their own cover.....so if they have an assembly etc then they have to talk to their colleagues and get them to cover.I don't have any 'number' when it comes to time off ( i tend to find that causes more issues) i do however insist on prior notice...staff know they must take this seriously!! I am reasonably happy to bend over backwards for them if they give me notice....but if they don't woe betide! If they are ill they must tell be by 7am at the latest appointments must be made after pre-school if possible etc etc this is about working as a team...i would have a team talk about how this impacts on the team and the business and how this could effect them! (no money!!!!) lots of time off can sometimes be a significant factor in low staff morale too so maybe you need to do some boosters! (bunch of flowers for the person who doesn't have any time off in a month? spot prize for a good ob or a lovely interaction with the children!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Always difficult ..we did not have a number for days off.. I used to have all staff arrange their own cover for any planned time off...they had to ensure that the person was suitable and kept the staff qualification ratios correct for the time and then come to me and let me know what they had arranged .. They were all very good and seldom took time off anyway... but for school outings and assemblies etc it did allow them to attend some even if they had to take turns because staff had children in same year at school so only one could go each time.. The knock on for this was that they became so used to organising time off they would often arrange cover for emergencies like sickness and call me to let me know what they had arranged for that day.. bonus... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondie Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 we allow staff to arrange between themselves if they want to swap sessions for any reason = children unwell/assembly etc., but they need to fill in a form saying why and who they are swapping with. also with time out for assemblies if cant get cover they have to fill in a form as above sickness-they fill in a sickness form to say when off and why,whether for own illness or for their child . each time the lead signs to agree the changes. these are kept in a file so we can look at these and also then can talk to staff if they are constantly off and support if needed etc., 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekker Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 Thanks for these - I do do a lot of the strategies suggested...I think the idea of seeing absences building up visually may help get the point across so I will try that - just showing them at the next staff meeting maybe... and I'll see if having to organise their own cover every time will help...some do but others just leave it to me. Maybe if they cant get cover amongst themselves and they then have to call in a committee member themselves it will make them think twice. since September Ive had about 6 wks where all staff have been In for the whole of their expected hours...to them it may not seem much as they only see their own absences but when you look at the whole lot together its a pretty poor show I think! - and it really does impact the children - and even parents - several times Ive had to cancel and rearrange meetings as we would be out of ratio! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I remember receiving an email years ago (it may have even been a letter, pre email!!) from Peninsula Business Services about something similar. It highlighted a court case between the post office and the employee. The PO won the case because they had set an expected level of attendance and the employee had breached it. It was a difficult judgement as the situation that took them over levels was something unavoidable like a broken leg - however, had they not taken the mickey earlier in the year then they would have been ok I've done a quick google and could only find this and this. Scrolling to the bottom it sets out something like 4 absences or 14 days within a twelve month period We don't have a specific limit but I do monitor patterns of absence, reasons for absences and have disciplined when someone has taken a clear lend (and I had proof they'd lied!) Not pleasant :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I would lok up absence management. My husband works for the LA and they have very strict AM in place. Also when I worked in a workplace nursery we had one too- we were treated same as all the company's employees. It was similar to gingerbreads above post, only I think ours was only 3 periods of absence, you were then put on a warning with specific formal meetings taking place. Xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I feel your pain ... I too encourage staff to make their own arrangements for cover, some do some don't .. I like the visual suggestion too It is also the same with holidays during work time, we are term time only and our contract states not holidays in work time but....... :angry: I actually welcome the charges made when taking a child out of school because this will (I hope) stop staff taking term time holidays which affects the whole team, not to mention their group of 'key children' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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