minimum session time

[diesel10]

Hi Everyone

 

During our recent inspection the inspector pointed out to me that we don't need to follow the EYFS for our 1-3pm (2 hour) session as it is less than the 2 1/2 hour minimum. I 'kind off' knew that anything under 2 1/2 hour was not cover by the EYFS but thought that this was for crèche's etc. We are a preschool offering 2, 3, 4 and 6 hour sessions. Our LEA has just started enforcing a 2 1/2 hour minimum policy for funding, so we have had to fit all our autumn born 3 year olds into lunch after xmas.

I would always follow the statutory guidance to ensure that our ensure is covered but was thinking that we don't need to do the keyworker books etc. We only charge parents £6.50 for the 2 hours but feel like putting the price up to cover the cost of all the books /paperwork that the parents aren't even bothered about.

Has anyone got any idea where I would confirm this?

 

 

[Stargrower]

I don't really understand. What would you do differently with the children if you didn't "follow the EYFS"? I wonder what the inspector would expect you to do during your two hour sessions. Also, wouldn't you be creating a sort of two-tier system if you stopped the key person approach for some children and not for others? How would you justify this? Are you able to increase your sessions to make them the same across the board - not the same in length, the same in what you offer. It seems a bit complicated and even a little bit unfair otherwise.

[diesel10]

Hi

I was thinking that we wouldn't do the keyperson books for these children to keep the costs down really. Or I could put the fees up to cover the cost of it. Some children are only with us for 2 x 2 hour sessions per week and it is a lot of work. We do overlap some of the children for the lunch session to make it 3 hours but can't fit everyone in.

[Greenfinch]

Hi,I'm with star grower,I don't understand really either.We have some children who only come for 1 x 3 hr session per week but they still have a key person and obs,records,next steps etc. I know you are only doing the 2hrs but I still would keep everything the same.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Greenfinch

[diesel10]

Hi Greenfinch

Yes you would need to as it's 3 hours. Per the inspector anything less than 2 1/2 hours you don't need to. (and can't claim funding for)

[Greenfinch]

Sorry,I just edited my post to make more sense then saw yours! I meant, I would keep everything the same so all children had same records etc.seems complicated otherwise.

[diesel10]

I'm really happy to keep everything the same but not for £6.50 for 2 hours. I was thinking if we don't have to do it, parents could have the choice to pay more for the extra work. ie £8 for 2 hours (same as funded 3 year olds) which I think is a lot of money and we should offer an affordable service.

We are a charity preschool but with LEA cuts, rising costs of everything, potential EYP funding cuts we need to do something to make ends meet.

[Fredbear]

Sorry I'm not sure why you only offer 2 hour sessions, or is this building constraints.

As for the journals, keypersons I would rather they all be the same for evaluation, assessing etc, irrespective of how many hours or sessions a child does.

[Guest]

I am not sure if this is relevant or not (!!) but when we first opened a private bit of nursery to run alongside the maintained nursery, to increase flexibility for parents we were told absolutely that we had to offer the same to children whichever session they attended.

In this way we didn't have a two tier approach.

I also worry for you that a different inspector may interpret the rules a little differently and doing it for some and not others could be frowned upon!!

I don't think parents understand the paperwork that we have to do and so offering them a cheaper session if they don't have a learning journey will mean nothing to them.

We sell our books (the learning journeys) once the reception teacher is familiar with the children. At £5 it doesn't cover all costs but it does help a little

[Guest sn0wdr0p]

We have about 20 children who attend our two hour sessions and do exactly the same for them as for children who stay longer. We charge £5.75 for the session. It's a bit of a loss leader at first but we then find that many parents then start to 'up' the session times and have their children attend half days etc. then when happy start to consider returning to work.

[narnia]

I couldn't sell the Learning Journeys! I always believe they belong to the child and as such, are not mine to charge for.

[Fredbear]

I see the learning journals as part of what we as a setting are, so wouldn't be happy to charge. I suppose it's up to us to determine how much goes in them alongside the compulsory assessments that we do.

Yes they do take time, yes they do incur costs for photos etc, but in my opinion are worth every penny spent.

[Cait]

I understand where you are coming from with this, and it's a discussion we have from time to time when we have a child that only comes one or two afternoons a week.

In fact, because we see them so infrequently, there is inevitably less paperwork anyway. Less chance to see them do things. Their Tapestry files are mainly pictorial and observations tend to be group ones as they are in the general melee of the afternoon. We do ensure that we get some specific obs and can track them within the group, but the whole thing is less than the other children.

I would say don't stress about it, just do what you are doing, these children deserve the best you have to offer in the same way as the other children. They aren't 'second class' because their parents choose to send them less.

[Stargrower]

That's exactly the way we work it too Cait. I know the key people of children who only attend one session a week sometimes worry that they don't make many observations but it can only be done 'pro rata' so to speak! If we don't see a child much, we won't have a lot of obs for them. But I couldn't agree more with the fact that it's quality not quantity that matters. These children should have the same opportunities when they are with us, and we should facilitate those opportunities and share information with parents in just the same way...in my opinion! :1b

[diesel10]

Thank you for all your replies. You are all right it would create a two-tier system. I think we have run with the loss leader for years to bring in children to the group but the overheads are increasing and we need to do something!

 

I would still like to know where the inspector got the information from though.

[diesel10]

I've been investigating myself. I have found on the ofsted fact sheet 'registration not required'

2. if you provide care where a child does not stay with you for more than two hours a day, even if your childcare service is open for longer then two hours.

 

Confusing!

[SazzJ]

The 2 hour session does not need to be inspected.

 

This I have discovered due to a mix up with registrations and I was told I could operate for 2 hours per day legally if needed until our new registration was processed.

[Cait]

Yes that's right SazzJ. That has been the case for a long time.