TORO Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Hi all, I am not sure whether i should be moaning really but hey, my DM, for about 8 years gave in her resignation a week ago, due to a new job in a school just after finishing her degree which i put her forward for encouraged her, with everything i could staffing resources etc. LA paid for the course, but still the nursery had to work around her study with her days off, l know that she cannot be with me forever due to pension etc that was the reason given, but to leave just after graduation not a day late, is such a let down. This is what i have been saying to our LA advisers, nurseries cannot afford graduates, they pay for the course, because the government want "graduates" in nurseries, but once qualified off they go to schools, that was one of the reasons why i chose to study for the EYPS, moan over. Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjayne Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 It is upsetting when that happens - especially after the support you have given and no time to reap the rewards. One way to try and get some of the benefit is to get staff to sign and agreement when they start to study, whereby if they leave within 2 years of qualifying/graduating there is a financial 'penalty' proportionate to the cost of supporting their study. It has happened for years in other professional areas - why are we so 'squeamish' in Early Years at ensuring we get the benefit - and so soft with our staff ? Our LA also has conditions attached to the bursaries offered where cash has to be repaid in various circumstances. :1b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Oh dear - Im not surprised that you are feeling let down - I know that I would be if in your position...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TORO Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 Thanks for the replies, what i also found annoying is that she knew she was going been to interviews, and still attended the new EYFS course, and we were only allowed 2 staff, i would have chosen another member of staff, that has now been promoted to DM :angry: to attend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 This sounds scarily similar to my situation... I have been a DM for about 18 months now. I completed my degree last year and graduated in October. I have remained at my pre-school until recently. I came across a job in a school and applied. I got the job (yippeee!) but I am sad to be leaving the pre-school. I didn't set out to cause ructions at work. I have always wanted to train to teach and I made no secret of it, although to be fair, it was only mentioned if it came up in conversation. I too have attended the training on the new EYFS and the 2 year old check and I was worried that my manager would think I had done it on purpose. I didn't, it was just bad timing all round. I have agreed to go and do an inset day at the pre-school to pass on everything I was told on these courses, plus I have offered to work throughout the holidays with anything my manager might need. I can understand why you would be upset. I dreaded telling my manager I was leaving as it was just before she went on holiday! We are a close staff team and were working well together. The time was just right for me to move on. I've got my own children to consider and to be honest, the money is better working in a school, even though I have downgraded to a TA rather than a DM. I'm sorry you feel annoyed about it and I hope you manage to sort something out for the new year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TORO Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 Oh snap then, Goodluck with your new job, the job she applied for is TA as well, your manager is going on holiday, i have OFSTED due in October Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 The thing about doing the Foundation Degree is that it really makes you reflect on your own practice, your strengths and weaknesses and opens up your eyes to other possibilities. It makes you think about what you want out of your job and how your talents can best be used. The positive glow you feel when you have completed (especially if you have done well) can easily make you feel a little restless for new challenges. The timing is very unfortunate, and I can understand that you feel aggrieved. As Clare points out in her post, it might not have been intentional. I hope you can resolve your feelings in time to say a positive goodbye to someone you have worked closely with for such a long time. Difficult, I know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 On the other hand, you could say that you have had 8 years benefit of her work with you and perhaps she deserves the chance to move on?? Wish her well, learn from it and don't feel aggrieved. Life is much too short to bear grudges. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I used to be a traning officer...i realised quickly that you train people to move on. If you have done your job properly they will move onwards and upwards. I haven't lost many staff recently but the ones that have gone are now running businessess, or are teachers or portage workers. I am very proud of them all :1b . Try to give yourself a pat on the back and concentrate on pushing the next group on. Without you she would have a much less rosy future! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Good point, narnia and I would also like to add (meant to say it earlier but forgot) that many learners report that their practice really develops and improves when they study the Foundation Degree. So I'm sure your setting has reaped the rewards of this as her learning has progressed, and that you will continue to feel the benefit of this in the months to come. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Good points raised here by everyone, but I can see Toro's point of view. It would seem that the DM left because of financial circumstances which we would all do if we had to, but the point of the Foundation Degree was to up-skill those employed in early years to delivery EYFS and improve settings. Oh well pay will rule the day in early years environments until early years is recognised as the same importance as compulsory education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 That is exactly what I intend to do Dot! :1b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TORO Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 Thanks for the replies again, Narnia, am not bearing grudges,and i think i have the right to moan, no one like losing staff that has been trained up expecially if you have devoted 3 years of your time to them, and done more than i care to mention here, and leaving just after qualification, so really i have not reaped anything she has been busy writing essays, dissertation with time off. I agree people train and move on, but if that happens in a nursery all the time OFSTED and parents will not be too happy about the staff turnover. l have wished her well, and luckily have a member of staff who can take up her place, who is now studying for her FD degree with another staff so watch the space :mellow: l cannot compete with schools salarly am afraid, l pay staff way above minimum wage and cannot pay more than what am paying without increasing fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjayne Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 So for the staff who are now studying see if you can get them to sign an agreement to remain with you for a couple of years post qualifying so you don't lose out again - and with the time you give them to study in work hours maybe be a little less generous ? They take on the study knowing the commitment and they should be managing their time effectively Look on this as a learning experience, and try to 'future proof' your setting a bit more. :1b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondie Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 we too ask all staff who do training to sign to say they will stay with us for x amount of time - depending on the qualification - if not they have to pay back the money we pay towards the cost of the course. we cannot afford to pay for staff to train then leave benefitting other settings - so that is our solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I have just finished my degree, did my foundation first and then went on for top-up year to degree and did very well (I am sooo chuffed) but the weird thing was I am not ready to move on just yet; although I am the manager so maybe that makes a difference, however everyone I speak to from committee to staff to parents all expect me to move on like NOW! they keep asking me where I am heading or making comments like 'oh on to bigger and better things then?' or even just 'well what now? career change soon?' so I feel I am the other way happy to stay put to make more changes, assimilate things further, let the dust settle and I almost feel like people are pushing me out the door! (maybe they are trying to tell me something ) I know before I took the job there was a massive staff turnover and they couldn't keep anyone 'in' the job of manager either so things went down hill a bit so maybe they are just worried they may go there again. Interestingly though I didn't get any support really, finance I had to figure out myself, I did take an extra day off but that was at my own expense they didn't pay me I just had to forgo my pay so really all they did was let me do some research in the setting! the bizarre world of early years!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I have just finished my degree, did my foundation first and then went on for top-up year to degree and did very well (I am sooo chuffed) but the weird thing was I am not ready to move on just yet; although I am the manager so maybe that makes a difference, however everyone I speak to from committee to staff to parents all expect me to move on like NOW! they keep asking me where I am heading or making comments like 'oh on to bigger and better things then?' or even just 'well what now? career change soon?' so I feel I am the other way happy to stay put to make more changes, assimilate things further, let the dust settle and I almost feel like people are pushing me out the door! (maybe they are trying to tell me something ) I know before I took the job there was a massive staff turnover and they couldn't keep anyone 'in' the job of manager either so things went down hill a bit so maybe they are just worried they may go there again. Interestingly though I didn't get any support really, finance I had to figure out myself, I did take an extra day off but that was at my own expense they didn't pay me I just had to forgo my pay so really all they did was let me do some research in the setting! the bizarre world of early years!!!!! Ditto on all fronts! I to have had experience of my setting insisting staff signed a contract before they would pay for training! They put timescales onto the payments e.g. if you left 1 year after completing you paid the full amount! If you left 2 years after you paid half and after 3 years none! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 To be honest I almost wish I had had the option of signing and them paying I would have stayed for that long, but that wasn't an option as a charity they didn't even consider it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Thanks for the replies again, Narnia, am not bearing grudges,and i think i have the right to moan, no one like losing staff that has been trained up expecially if you have devoted 3 years of your time to them, and done more than i care to mention here, and leaving just after qualification, so really i have not reaped anything she has been busy writing essays, dissertation with time off. You have every right to be brassed off, and many managers in your position would feel more than a bit apprehensive at supporting another member of staff through the same qualification and be worried that history might repeat itself. It is to your credit that you don't bear a grudge, and that you wish her well in her future. Hopefully this time around you will have a much better experience that will be mutually beneficial for your staff member and your setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 My point was that she has been with you for 8 years, so you HAVE had the benefit of a (presumably) good member of staff. If you didn't have anything in place to prevent her leaving whenever she felt like it, then why is she bound to stay?? If you helped her to gain her degree, then you have done a wonderful thing in helping her to progress her career, but that doesn't mean she has to stay with you forever, surely?? I may not always put things across terribly well, or with the most tact, but my point really is: if she felt she wanted to stay at your setting, then that's where she would still be. She she doesn't, so for all of you, hers is a good move................if she stayed out of a sense of duty, rather than a passion for the setting, then she would not really be doing the job you want? So, when I said, don't hold a grudge, I mean..........let it go.........let her go and wish her all the best, from your heart and mean it. If you then feel you need to tighten up staff contracts, then do so, but my own feeling is that we share so much in this job: our ethos, our knowledge, our love even..........but not at the cost of keeping folk who no longer wish to be there tied to us, surely?? I hope she does brilliantly well at her new job.......and that you will feel able to feel part of her success through your skilful mentoring and support, that's all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TORO Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 Happymax and others thank you all for your constructive comments and not onesided comments, one of the reasons why i like posting periodically here with th ability to let off steam without being shot down <_< . One a lighter note we are hosting a graduation ceremony for pre -schoolers with caps and gowns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I wasn't being one-sided, nor was I shooting you down.............................merely presenting another angle on it.......... Hope your graduation ceremony goes well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 We have an EYP and 2 staff training towards foundation degrees at present but as a small, private nursery, we do not have a hope of keeping them after they qualify! We just cannot match the wages that they will rightly deserve. We are hoping to keep the EYP for at least a couple of years as we have recieved a little funding for her through the single formula funding but she could earn much more in a children's centre so we are resigned to losing her.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Most foundation degrees, top ups, EYPS courses are fully funded with bursaries to supply cover so you couldn't ask for money paid back if the setting didn't contribute.....could you?! Also contracts that you sign into saying you will stay for a certain amount of time aren't legally binding I can't imagine small settings can afford the costs of tribunals......can they?! I left after finishing my foundation degree......all fully funded by workforce development..........leaving was hard because i loved my job but i had to put my family first and working full time all year lost me precious time with my family. I did 12 months in a school....never want to go back to one.....inflexible/LAtarget driven/paperwork bound institutions :angry: However, I am returning to my nursery and intend on staying as my hours have been changed to suit my family needs and the pay reflects what i do soeveryone is happy!! Sometimes it takes a move to know what you really want and make you fight for the best work/life balance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Qualifications are something that yes are needed, and training is brilliant.. but in our industry as private nurseries, it is very hard to increase wages depending on qualification levels. I am a firm believer in a persons attitude to this very demanding job over qualifications. I think a person with a lot of time to devote to really caring for children's outcomes and wanting to improve their outcomes and get a real buzz from doing so. Yes the knowledge to adapt these skills to getting the most from an activity or how to handle situations regarding challenging behaviour, or special needs, or the most effective way to teach a child really really helps.. but for me it's not the only thing a nursery practitioner or higher status needs. The passion has to be there and always be there, and yes some knowledge is required, the more the better naturally.. but the most important ingredient for me is the wanting to really help each and every child in your care to the best of your ability. OK i have been working in the office at my mothers nursery as some of might know if you read my introduction on this forum. I am currently doing my level 2 nvq in childcare.. (pushed into it by my mother lol) and i am loving it tbh.. i have the privilege of having 3 children of my own and the oldest being 7 years old.. and the experience i have gained over the 7 years is great. The course i have been doing and my excellent tutor has really helped me to shine when with the children. The policies and procedures i have had to put together over the last year, with the help from the setting manager and my mother has taught me well on those.. and the meetings i have been involved with with our EYA has really really helped.. now would you have guessed from many of my threads or reply's i don't even have my nvq2?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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