Stupid Question

[Guest]

I was informed by my previous supervisor that the Foundation Stage Curriculum covers from 3 years of age to the end of reception.

 

However another supervisor from another setting has informed me otherwise. Confused now

 

Can some kind person reply to this I'd be grateful.

 

angie

[Guest]

Angie

 

In England the foundation stage definitely runs from 3 to end of Reception at which point the children start KSI. Couldn't comment on Wales or Scotland though!

[Inge]

Agree

definitely 3 to end reception...... just curious but what has the other supervisor told you it is?

 

Inge

[Guest]

She informed me that the Foundation stage curriculum starts at 3 and is complete when when they finish pre-school. I disagreed with this but she was comletely adamant. Made me start to doubt myself

 

She used to run a lower pre-school (just 3 year olds) Maybe this was the reason.

 

Angie

[hali]

ummmm

[Rea]

Agree with everyone else angie. Has she been trying to get all the children to achieve the ELG's? What an optimist!

[Guest]

I don't know whether she is trying to complete all the goals Eeek poor children!!!

 

Angie

[Susan]

OH dear and Ive been looking for work in Bucks!!

[Inge]

Perhaps her training is very out of date,

there was a time when it did finish before school and was not used in the reception year at school.

 

I feel for the poor children if she is trying to cover all the goals, and the staff must be feeling it too.

 

Inge

[Guest]

Since this thread started 'stupid question' can anyone tell me where it says that a child does not have to enter school until, is it , the term they turn five. I have very cute triplets at our nursery who have the disadvantage of August birthdays which means they will start school after christmas if they follow the trend......... but both Mum and I don't think they'll be ready. Any info gratefully received.

[Guest]

Here, has anyone noticed how quickly Hali's glass is emptied and refilled???? That will take some beating!

[Susan]

hi, LEAs still have differing admission policies but this is endorsed by teachernet, although I found it on Nottingham's website

 

What is compulsary school age?

Your child is of compulsary school age on 1 January, 1 April or 1 September following their fifth birthday:

Children who turn five between 1 January and 31 March have to attend school at the beginning of the term after 1 April

Children who turn five between 1 April and 31 August have to attend school from the beginning of the term after 1 September

Children who turn five between 1 September and 31 December have to attend school from the beginning of the term after 1 January.

 

In practise it is very difficult for schools to keep places open for parents who do not want their children to attend school until these times, if their admission policy is earlier.

 

As the reception class teacher I always found that the benefits of children remaining with their peers was actually greater than the nursery ever realised and if the provision is correct within the school it should not matter where the child is.

[Sue R]

Very wise words, Susan!

 

Sue

[hali]

WISHFUL THINKING AJW

[Guest]

Hi Sue and thank you for your info. Ordinarily I would agree with you about the advantages of children moving into school with their peers but in this particular case the triplets, in common with many multiple birth children, definitely have particular issues and struggle to settle, separate, toilet, wash hands....... all the things we might expect to see in our sessions for our 2 year olds - loosely speaking, developmental delay. Whilst I accept there are 2 more terms until they can start school and a lot can happen in that time, I owe it to the parent to inform her that actually she doesn't have to send them if she doesn't want to, or doesn't feel they're ready. I would aim to work closely with her, the children and the receiving reception teacher for the best possible outcome. I just wanted to be sure of my facts before launching in with Mum. I attended a really interesting TAMBA conference in Bristol a year or two ago (Twins and Multiple Births Association) who have a website with lots of useful stuff on it including a section for schools to guide them in adopting a multiple birth policy and practice document. The conference was a total eye-opener regards multiples and I would never assume a one-size-fits-all perspective since.

 

Oops, do you think I have hijacked this discussion? Sorry!

[Susan]

not at all, but do beware that schools actually cant be as accomodating as they may wish to be and it may be that it is better for these children to transfer with support.

[Guest]

This is a tricky one - because they may then have to go into Yr 1 with out the preparation of time in reception class.

Unless you can get an Educational Psychologist to agree to for them to be out of phase ie:- kept back a year. This may meet their needs but with a differentiated curriculum in the reception class this should also meet their needs. A lot depends on the attitude of the school and the reception class teacher.

[Guest]

Mimi, Please, I don't mean to offend but if the triplets stay in the preschool until KS1, How will this "keep them back a year". Surely the reception follows the Foundation Stage Curriculum toward the Early Learning goals, like preschools do?

 

I agree there is a lot to consider, but we should be careful that preschool and/or school are putting the children and parents wishes and needs first, before the needs of admissions policies/procedures. Aren't policies meant to be reviewed and flexible to provide an "inclusive" provision, even if this means earlier or later starting dates.

 

Susan, thank you for your info on teachernet example admissions policy, in my area parents are told there is only one annual intake in September and any admission later in the year is, legally ok, but cannot be guaranteed.

 

In my preschool I have admissions all year round on any date.

 

Peggy

[michaelle]

I'm sure nobody minds

[Guest]

Perhaps the lady in question is getting confused between the Foundation Stage and the Profile (if children follow the system whereby they move to a school nursery/FS unit for their Profile year). She may be thinking they're two separate phases.

 

Or not.

 

The issue of whether children who go to school without a reception term are at a disadvantage is a vexed one. I agree with Peggy, it should be a matter of what is right for the child, not what is right for the admissions policy. We are all implementing the Foundation Stage curriculum, but our approaches are very different (as witnessed by these discussions!).

 

I'm don't know what the research shows comparing the experiences of children who go straight to Year 1 from pre-school or those who have a reception term in school.

 

I have three children, who started school at each stage of the school year. The one who was the youngest when he joined school (end of July birthday) took to it like a duck to water, and the one who was wobbliest was the one who had two reception terms. She went into a mixed Year1/Reception class, made friends with a lot of the older girls and then got split up from them.

 

Traumatic at the time, but everything evens out in the end.

 

It will be interesting to hear how the triplets get on!

 

Maz

[catma]

Term of entry to R would be determined by local policy, some faith schools have 1 entry for the year, some LEAs have 2 points of entry, birthdays 1/9 - 28/2 = Sept entry and 1/3 - 31/8 = January, or three points as explained earlier. In practice I suppose that transition from FS to Y1 is transition wherever you do the FS. The practical problem is that in a popular school if you are not in R you may never get a space in Y1 as it would be full, so parents may limit their choices and options i suppose, and children will be joining an already established group who may have been together for a long time in childrens eyes..

[mundia]

This is very interesting.

If I undertsood Mimi corrrectly, she was saying that in the event of a child/ren not coping with year one, it is possible to 'keep them back' into reception for longer but this often needs all sorts of paperwork for this to happen (we have one such child this year); she wasnt suggesting that staying in pre school would hold the children back a year.

 

This is an interesting discussion because sometimes what may appear best for a child now is not best for them later on or in the long term. There is lots of evidence showing that many chidlern find the transition from R to yr 1 diffcult and this is even when the children are in the same school, with possibly even the same staff! It wouldnt be diffcult to imagine then that the transition from preschool with an 8:1 ratio to a year 1 class with a 30:1 ratio could be very tricky, and possibly 2 smaller moves may be better.

 

In addition Catma's point is a very important one too. With 3 children and not one to think of, an oversubscribed school may not be able to find 3 places in the same class or year group, and a school will not 'hold' places for a year. This means the parents need to be aware that they run the risk of the chidlren not getting a place at their chosen school, or even worse, being separated. Yes, we may not like it, but it is the real world, and sometimes we have to make tough decisions. What matters, as I think LJW is trying to do, is that the parents are properly informed of the issues so that they can make an informed decision.

[Susan]

Exactly, Mundia.

 

Admission policies are I'm afraid rather set in stone. The only legality being that a child must be in school in the term following their fifth birthday.

Schools are under an obligation to fill their places and can not keep places empty if there is a child waiting to fill it.

 

I was recently at an oversubscribed school and the parents of several younger nursery children were advised by their nursery that the child was not ready for school. Consequently the parents declined the places offered to them for September admission into Reception and expressed a wish for places for the following September for year 1. But our waiting list was longer than the number of places that were on offer--we were over subscribed and those children never did get the opportunity to take up the places they wanted as no one left.

 

In my experience, it is always traumatic for a child to join an already established group, even staggered intakes into reception can cause problems and for a child joining on their own it can be even more difficult. Of course, there are situations when this is unavoidable but the unifying Foundation stage curriculum could and should even out that age old question of which setting is best.

[Guest]

Thank you for clarifying Mimi's point Mundia, I had totally misunderstood.

 

Your response has given me a clearer insight to a different perspective, of admissions management in schools. ( note to self- slap on the wrist for being so blinkered in my viewpoint)

 

I agree with your astute, final sentence, " ....is that the parents are properly informed of the issues so that they can make an informed decision."

 

Just today, I had a parent tell me he was considereing keeping his son ( 4yrs in May) at preschool for an extra year. He questioned whether he would still get funding, and we discussed other considerations.

I shall take note of the comments in this topic and use them to give him more information to consider, towards his decision.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

As I was drifting off to sleep the other night thinking about these triplets transferring from pre-school I was reminded of a couple of our pre-school children who were being taken out to go to the local school-attached nursery.

 

We all shook our heads (those of us who were not so experienced and the wiser, older heads amongst us) and said "they'll never cope" or "we've spent all this time working with these children to develop their social skills, to get them settled and now they're just finding their feet" and "another change in setting so soon will undo all the progress they have made".

 

Then, as part of our DPP a colleague and I went to visit the nursery concerned, and what a revelation! The shyest child who would not even look vaguely in your direction at pre-school was standing up in front of his peers recounting a tale in the most animated way. Our jaws literally dropped. Was this really the same child who left our pre-school half a term ago? Who was this confident, articulate interloper, and what had he done with the child we thought we knew so well?

 

We learned a valuable lesson that day: the time was obviously right for this child to transfer, even though outwardly it looked to be a difficult transition. I try never to underestimate the ability of children to rise to the occasion, even when parents are quaking in their boots!

 

Maz

[Guest]

Sorry I have come into this debate late again - thankyou Mundia for makeing my late night post a little clearer - that is what I meant.

We have recently had a number of children who were born at a very prem stage one under 24 weeks and after a slow start he is now doing well in reception with his peers, his mother had been keen for him to start school out of phase, a year later, this view was supported by the paediatric team at our local hospital but the Educational Psychology service would only support this if the child had a learning disability.

[Steve]

What a great discussion!

 

One of the conscious aims when setting up this forum was to provide an environment for allowing the preschool and reception professions in the Foundation Stage to come together in a way that didn't seem to be happening very often. It's fantastic to see you bringing different perspectives and experiences to this conversation, and it's certainly teaching me some things I didn't know!

 

One thing it's made me consciously aware of is that children in our pre-school have made exactly the sort of major jump in behaviour Mazlittle describes when transferring to reception. Perhaps this is partly because of the 'legacy' effect? When a little boy in our pre-school started I remember him being very timid - over the two years he was with us, although he apparently loved coming, he would maintain a submissive attitude, never talking or initiating anything himself. Yet when he went to reception, after a few weeks I watched him stride confidently into school, and called over his shoulder "Hi Steve" at me. His mum said he'd taken to it like a duck to water.

 

Almost being expected to behave in a certain way in a certain place (although of course he was given every encouragement to become more outgoing) sometimes leads to this legacy of behaviour. When these children are taken from their legacy environment and introduced into a new place it can be a great opportunity for them to astonish us all - as they so often do!

 

Does that make sense or am I talking rubbish?

[Guest]

Dear all,

I think this has generated a lot of interesting points and most of them I agree with. I think that if the infrastructure were in place, which it is not, then the Government may look to establishing a system similar to our European counterparts whereby a child starts "schooling" much later. I think the Foundation Stage units appear to be already moving this way and I get the impression that with the infrastructure of the early excellence centres in place there will be more opportunities to do this. However, it is only my opinion and lets face it - that's not worth a lot. There are already moves to build on the workforce infrastructure/qualifications and now they are encouraging schools to extend their service so that they can offer nursery care. So we may see further Foundation stage units, as I have said before makes financial sense for them - why pay four staff when you can pay 2? However, having said that appreciate that probably two staff within a maintained setting earn more than the 4 staff in the private sector - although I really don't know what the figures would be exactly.

 

From a personal note I would love to be able to keep those children with April-August birthdays a little longer just to see their progress especially when they started as very shy individuals but I can also see that in many instances the move to school is the making of them.

 

However, please remind me of this in 5-6 weeks time when I for one feel I am on "crowd control" as they become too familiar with the setting and need a change in direction. A 13 week summer term could be potentially very tiring.

Nikki

[Guest]

Wow! Thanks everyone for all your input. I have really appreciated the diverse responses which have helped me not only see the Reception/KS1 perspective but also the wider issues. As Steve says, this kind of discussion can only help inform us all of the wider issues and help build closer links and better relationships.

 

To keep you in the picture our term started again this week. Prior to Easter the triplets were very unwell and absent for 2+ weeks so we were on tenderhooks this week to see how they coped (ie back to square one, timid, clingy, demanding, competing for attention between themselves....). We are all thrilled that they seem to have come on on leaps and bounds, one reason undoubtedly being because Mum had the sense to keep them home when they were ill, (not send them anyway like many do). She is a great Mum and clearly does loads with them at home. They have been happy to try activities on their own, one has been 'planning' spontaneously (the shyest) and included a new child in her plan!!! One has been to the loo and washed her hands by herself several times without being encouraged (I've nearly run out of stickers because of it but its worth it!). Its been a great week and its only Wednesday!!!!

Haven't had a reply from Ofsted re exceeding my standard number by 1 though, so they can all come 5 days... still you can't have everything and maybe my Inspector's inspecting!!!

[Guest]

Steve - I don't think your talking rubbish. I also have seen this legacy of behaviour you mention.