Team Work

[Guest jenpercy]

Ok if you constantly find that when you are trying to get the whole group's attention and one or 2 children start kicking off, that the other staff have melted away.

 

Have you ever found yourself pinned down by one special needs child grabbing the wobbly bit under your arms and another undoing your flies, and again where are the other staff.

 

Seriously, if teamwork is lacking in your setting is it possible to bring it in?

[Panders]

In the particular case you mention i.e. a whole group time I would suggest that it is 1:1 with your sen children, so in fact there will be 3 of you at whole group times.

 

Team spirit, team work - that could be a course day that you find the money to book and hope to reap the benefits there ever after!

 

Tough love - leave these members of staff individually alone with the whole group trying to do what you do and see if they like it!!! (not for very long and with help on hand immediately things go pear shaped! Sometimes there is no substitute for "walk a mile in my shoes" and see what it's like

[HoneyPancakes]

Well, I'm not really qualified to answer this, but from my position as a Mummy Helper (who I am gratified to say is treated very much as a member of staff when I am there), if I'm not in the right place at the right time, it's because I don't really know what is expected of me. What might help me be in the right place is if the teacher says before whole class time, 'Fe, can you please sharpen those pencils close by the class, and if anyone becomes disruptive, will you please take them by the hand to the back of the space and help them to listen quietly?'

 

Perhaps I'm just travelling hopefully, but I like to think people just don't know rather than recalcitrant.

 

Good luck,

 

Fe

[redjayne]

Good advice from Panders, plus I tend to find a little word in the individual/s ear at an opportune moment asking why they felt it necassary to leave you to deal with whatever, just gives them a bit of a jolt when they realise you have clocked thier abandonment, it's often interesting to see thier reaction! Building and maintaining a team is a hard job, and keeping a balance of roles too, if others see you as the 'behaviour issues/problem solver' all the time then thats the hat you will wear . Sometimes good old fashioned guidance and delegation is the only way to get them to take charge of situations.

[SmileyPR]

As Fe says, it might depend on the other staff members qualifications/roles to really get to know how much you can realistically expect from them. Depending on that, then you could proceed... the best with a subtle touch as Fe as expressed and if things don't work that way, then speak individually with the person concerned. Otherwise, it it keeps on going, do as Panders... LOL.

[Guest jenpercy]

In the particular case you mention i.e. a whole group time I would suggest that it is 1:1 with your sen children, so in fact there will be 3 of you at whole group times.

 

Team spirit, team work - that could be a course day that you find the money to book and hope to reap the benefits there ever after!

 

Tough love - leave these members of staff individually alone with the whole group trying to do what you do and see if they like it!!! (not for very long and with help on hand immediately things go pear shaped! Sometimes there is no substitute for "walk a mile in my shoes" and see what it's like

I hae sppoken to staff as a whole many times. We have left them to take charge and they ccan't do it, but this just seems to reinforce their reluctance to step forward. I am very sceptical of team building courses, I don't see how this can be taught. We have sent them on behaviour management courses, but the confidence to confront children with unacceptable behaviour just isn't there.

 

If I thoughht that there was a course that could deal with this, I would spend hundreds on it, but it's motivation, natural authority etc.

 

I would love it if you would prove me wrong, and it is possible to change tyhis through training

[SmileyPR]

Poor you.. now I sort of understand a bit better. Do they have any teacher training courses? Some years ago, Steve downloaded a presentation about team building. It was lovely. I am not sure if it is still here in the web site, maybe in the resource area. It would help them realise the importance of their contribution and how much you do value it, how much it can make a difference if they trust in themselves the same way you wish for them to do so. Good luck and keep us posted.

[Guest]

SmileyPR I'd be interested to see Steve's presentation................ Cooeeee! Steve, are you there???

[HappyMaz]

SmileyPR I'd be interested to see Steve's presentation................ Cooeeee! Steve, are you there???

Your wish is my command - Steve's "lessons from geese" can be found here!

 

Maz

[SmileyPR]

Thanks Maz! I was in a hurry this morning, had to leave, so I felt a bit sad not to be able to search for it... yet , I knew someone will come to the rescue and you did so .

[Guest jenpercy]

Your wish is my command - Steve's "lessons from geese" can be found here!

 

Maz

 

Lovely as that is - I feel it is a little abstract for my needs.

 

for example, I said that I wasn't happy with the current activities. I said that child led activities didn't mean putting out the same craft tables every day ie paints (with no variations), clay or junk modelling. I said that planning was still necessary, gave a couple examples of different things we could do, and then asked for 3 ideas each on variations. I got none, I did a list myself of 30, pinned them up in the kitchen - and saw absolutely no change.

 

they used to be ready to go home as soon as the last child left, (up to 15 minutes early) then we announced evaluation meetings in the last 15 minutes. I was then informed that it was impossible for them to be packed away before 6:30. We have had a rest from evaluation meetings for the last couple of weeks, whist we rethink, and gradually, the hall has been cleared earlier and earlier and they are ready to go by 6:15 once again.

[Inge]

n response to the clearing up earlier and earlier.. and ending 15mins early...

 

I am afraid I would respond on the days this happens.. ie when all is done by 6.15 and they seem ready to go.. by saying as we now have 15 mins we have time to do XXXXX and have a meeting or anything I found appropriate... after all they are being paid til this time so I would find something use it - perhaps something they lack confidence in...

 

Them vanishing when you or someone needs support.. Have you tried to call for them to help by name... they surely cannot refuse if you ask them to be there.. They may just stand and watch but at least they are there and could learn from the experience.

 

I usually found until staff had done some large group things with the children they tended to lack enough confidence to help or intervene in other areas - children tended to respond better to someone they felt 'were in charge' than someone who never did anything with the whole or large groups.

 

I used to start them all reading the whole group , songs etc supported at first and then I would gradually back off or have them support each other... moving on to them doing the circle time things and large music and movement etc... so they became used to doing things with all the children together.. WE often found some great strengths and ended up with all staff having something they really loved to so with the children, which ended up developing into their own area of expertise.. one was story telling, another songs, music and movement once over the initial embarrassment factor all enjoyed..

 

As for the setting out of different items... I started with a list on the wall of what I wanted out each day with variations... usually taken from the child's interests I had noticed, or from the topic when we had them.. it only took a few minutes each day to do this... Staff had to sue this when setting up... after a while I then asked them to fill it in for the following day...

 

I found that by making it slightly more formal they had to change things, and they began to think for themselves how to change it. It does sound a bit like a confidence issue..

 

I had a mix of mature and young staff from 17 to 50s... and all worked well together and able to do anything asked of them.. maybe I was lucky - or I like to think I was able to guide them to become confident practitioners... they all came with no training at all worked their way up and when I left were all level 3 and one doing EYPs having completed a degree she would never have done before, so I must have done something right.

 

Inge

[Guest jenpercy]

n response to the clearing up earlier and earlier.. and ending 15mins early...

 

I am afraid I would respond on the days this happens.. ie when all is done by 6.15 and they seem ready to go.. by saying as we now have 15 mins we have time to do XXXXX and have a meeting or anything I found appropriate... after all they are being paid til this time so I would find something use it - perhaps something they lack confidence in...

 

Them vanishing when you or someone needs support.. Have you tried to call for them to help by name... they surely cannot refuse if you ask them to be there.. They may just stand and watch but at least they are there and could learn from the experience.

 

I usually found until staff had done some large group things with the children they tended to lack enough confidence to help or intervene in other areas - children tended to respond better to someone they felt 'were in charge' than someone who never did anything with the whole or large groups.

 

I used to start them all reading the whole group , songs etc supported at first and then I would gradually back off or have them support each other... moving on to them doing the circle time things and large music and movement etc... so they became used to doing things with all the children together.. WE often found some great strengths and ended up with all staff having something they really loved to so with the children, which ended up developing into their own area of expertise.. one was story telling, another songs, music and movement once over the initial embarrassment factor all enjoyed..

 

As for the setting out of different items... I started with a list on the wall of what I wanted out each day with variations... usually taken from the child's interests I had noticed, or from the topic when we had them.. it only took a few minutes each day to do this... Staff had to sue this when setting up... after a while I then asked them to fill it in for the following day...

 

I found that by making it slightly more formal they had to change things, and they began to think for themselves how to change it. It does sound a bit like a confidence issue..

 

I had a mix of mature and young staff from 17 to 50s... and all worked well together and able to do anything asked of them.. maybe I was lucky - or I like to think I was able to guide them to become confident practitioners... they all came with no training at all worked their way up and when I left were all level 3 and one doing EYPs having completed a degree she would never have done before, so I must have done something right.

 

Inge

I forgot to add that the length of time that thet have worked here is 10 years, 9 years, 8 years, & 18 months. We have discussed lack of support at several staff meetings. We have discussed how to 'DO' behavior management, but if I leave them to do it, the place descends into uproar. This was mentioned in our OFSTED report as boundaries are not consistently enforced. At mealtimes, the Supervisor and I have constantly, to shout across to misbehaving child as the member of staff nearest does not even look at them, let alone say anything.

 

it was suggested by our Development Officer that closing down and reopening elsewhere with new staff would be an option!!!I am going in tomorrow to tell them what has been said and to tell them that I am advertising for a Level 3, that will mean that I will have to make one of them redundant.

 

Wish me luck

[Guest jenpercy]

As for giving them something to do if they finish early, we actually need to evaluate, but whatever we get them to do, they will go back to dragging out tidying away and then they want to go to promptly to catch train.

[Guest]

I completely feel your pain and I'm reading this with interest in case someone comes up with the magic answer! For our part we have decided to have myself and another senior member of staff take the whole group time. We called it playing to our strengths! I can see that for some staff it is not in their nature to be a leader of a whole group like that - not that I don't believe they shouldn't try, but it just seemed easier to take it on ourselves and concentrate on getting them doing other stuff more effectively. That said my manager has just told me one of the staff told her the playdough was a mess this morning. Manager told her to throw it out and we would make more in the morning and she has walked out and left it exactly where it was! It will be there for her again in the morning too along with the paint pots and the rest of the mess. That is is the type of thing we are trying to get them working more effectively on.

 

I would love to be able to get them to take some responsibility for their work and see a little bit of pride in what they do but sadly I don't think I will. It sounds horrible but we are sort of hoping for some resignations this summer to freshen things up with staff who are interested and motivated.

[HappyMaz]

As for giving them something to do if they finish early, we actually need to evaluate, but whatever we get them to do, they will go back to dragging out tidying away and then they want to go to promptly to catch train.

How about scheduling your evaluation as soon as the children have gone home, for a set time, and then having tidy up time afterwards? Nothing like a deadline to get tidying up done on time!

 

Maz

[Guest]

How about scheduling your evaluation as soon as the children have gone home, for a set time, and then having tidy up time afterwards? Nothing like a deadline to get tidying up done on time!

 

Maz

 

 

I agree, perhaps evaluation could be at 6 or something for 15 minutes then the staff have to tidy up afterwards? If you get complaints about how they can't possibly tidy up in the time allowed then the answer needs to be "tough, I've seen you do it before so work faster" (perhaps not in so many words!) If they think they can get away with going back to how things have always been by complaining and complaining until things are changed back that is what they will do and it sounds like that might be what's happened with your evaluation meetings this time. Anyone who doesn't like it can leave and really from what you've said, would it be such big loss?

 

Also with the whole changing the provision thing you might have to be a little more direct rather than suggesting a list they could go from stick something on the wall next to the area and each day right down what the enhancement needs to be for that day and insist the staff get it out, that way they don't have to choose just do what they are told! Maybe if it is a confidence issue this will help them to work through it.

[Guest jenpercy]

I completely feel your pain and I'm reading this with interest in case someone comes up with the magic answer! For our part we have decided to have myself and another senior member of staff take the whole group time. We called it playing to our strengths! I can see that for some staff it is not in their nature to be a leader of a whole group like that - not that I don't believe they shouldn't try, but it just seemed easier to take it on ourselves and concentrate on getting them doing other stuff more effectively. That said my manager has just told me one of the staff told her the playdough was a mess this morning. Manager told her to throw it out and we would make more in the morning and she has walked out and left it exactly where it was! It will be there for her again in the morning too along with the paint pots and the rest of the mess. That is is the type of thing we are trying to get them working more effectively on.

 

I would love to be able to get them to take some responsibility for their work and see a little bit of pride in what they do but sadly I don't think I will. It sounds horrible but we are sort of hoping for some resignations this summer to freshen things up with staff who are interested and motivated.

 

I have given up hoping for resignations. I haver not been expecting them to lead whole group time, just to step in quietly behind someone who isn't listening and reinforce the message. If discipline isn't their thing, or setting up, or tidying away, or planning, or evaluating, what is their thing, what strengths of THEIRS could we play to.

 

Thing is good staff seem to feel the need to move on for promotion, more hours etc.

[finleysmaid]

have you tried some 'Retail' tricks and encourage them by use of rewards - a bit like the children!! so the one who can come up with three new ideas this week gets a bottle of wine or a bunch of flowers or M+S voucher. A bit like naughty children decide which behaviour annoys you most and try and turn it to a positive - i know it's annoying as they should see it as part of their jobs but it is easy to get into a negative spiral. have you told them how you feel and done the we all work as a team talk A problem is just a challenge in disguise....perhaps try and make it more fun for them too, targets with rewards? difficult to get people to think at the end of the day - how about tidying and setting up for tomorrow (or are you pack away?) then do evaluation in the morning.

maybe you just need to look at it from a different angle?

i've worked with loads of different teams and managed up to 220 people but i obvioulsy don't know your setting so sorry if this no help