Jester Posted May 18, 2010 Author Share Posted May 18, 2010 (edited) okay will try to explain......(brain cell ticks slowly.....) for diamond in twinkle twinkle the words 'like a diamond in the sky' are accompanied by the signs 'diamond' 'in' and 'sky'. so diamond is hand open (like showing five fingers) then put fore finger and thumb towards each other, as if you were going to pick up something from a flat palm on your other hand...this is the' in 'bit - then sky is two hands sweeping over your head - a bit like a rainbow over your head.. trying to explain this on here is like that game when you have to describe something without saying it Ah I get it now, I will, from now on use that action. Just read your other post, think I will just keep twinkling! It is true, honest! we were told by a fluent bsl user that we should draw the shape of the diamond to avoid embarassment and offence Ah so the student was in fact right. Also can't believe this thread has two pages! And I have just made it 3 Edited May 18, 2010 by Jester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mps09 Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 If you asked a child how many feet they had and they held up two fingers would you correct them if help the offensive way? My son (at 4) asked me if it would still be rude if you help up two fingers (the 'ok' way) but someone was standing behind you!! he he Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 It seems to me that diamond shape is a diamond shape, 'like a diamond in the sky' and if we sing a song and make that shape demonstrating with our hands to our young children, it is just representing a shape to them. They are hardly likely to think it represents anything else, and if they do that is a very worrying issue. I shall continue to to do what I have done for 40 odd years without anyone complaining that is is somehow sexually inappropriate. This is what I used to think, however if you ever have a child who's only way of communicating is through signing, then I think out of respect we should use only appropriate signs, as you wouldnt use 'rude' spoken language, so its only appropriate that we dont use inappropriate sings, even very young children who use signing to communicate are taught the signs for their bits, as with all children, they could disclose to you in sign language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester Posted May 18, 2010 Author Share Posted May 18, 2010 If you asked a child how many feet they had and they held up two fingers would you correct them if help the offensive way? My son (at 4) asked me if it would still be rude if you help up two fingers (the 'ok' way) but someone was standing behind you!! he he That is a good point, it reminds me of the time when I was doing a maths session with reception and I asked them to show me how many fingers to hold up for number 1 and one of the children very proudly held up his middle finger to me and said "thats one Miss" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 This is what I used to think, however if you ever have a child who's only way of communicating is through signing, then I think out of respect we should use only appropriate signs, as you wouldnt use 'rude' spoken language, so its only appropriate that we dont use inappropriate sings, even very young children who use signing to communicate are taught the signs for their bits, as with all children, they could disclose to you in sign language. But if the sign for it is the opposite way up, then surely there is no confusion anyway? I am not altogether sure that 'drawing' a diamond shape is very useful - unless you make it very clear then they are likely not to understand what shape you are trying to represent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 Well I'm just glad I read this post before we has an unplanned visit from a new social worker this morning. She arrived in the middle of song time - so sat and watched us.............. when she spoke to me afterwards she used quite a lot of BSL naturally within her normal speech. If she wasn't visiting on a serious matter I'd have asked her veiws. xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueJ Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 We now do lots of signing (BSL and Makaton) and were also told that the diamond shape type action was the sign for a lady's bits and pieces!!!!!! We now use this sign for diamond - place right hand palm side up over left hand (palm side down) over ring finger and then open and close right hand as though a flashing diamond. (Hope that's not too confusing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 hmmm feel a little bit guilty giggling to myself at all of this - but there's no way I can now use the sign I was using with a straight face - looks like I'll be coming up with a new sign and explaining why to my nursery nurses and music teacher! The things you learn from this forum!... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 so - sorry - today we 'drew' diamonds in the air, but one of my staff asked 'if we steeple all our fingers and have the thumbtips downwards and touching, is it still rude?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 so - sorry - today we 'drew' diamonds in the air, but one of my staff asked 'if we steeple all our fingers and have the thumbtips downwards and touching, is it still rude?' all the fingers steepled is 'wednesday', although the thumbs arent touching, but its not rude LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) all the fingers steepled is 'wednesday', although the thumbs arent touching, but its not rude LOL I always got taught Wednesday was the W sign twice (flat hands and straight fingers interlinked) but this might be a regional thing since BSL tends to vary by region. (So much so that half my class failed their level 2 interpretation exam because the video they played us was of a Scottish signer.) Maybe the diamond being rude varies by region as well. If it's being shown as being thumbs up and fingers down on the internet then you can almost guarantee that BSL users in some parts of the country use it the other way up. Edited May 20, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 We've been doing diamond as fingers up and thumbs down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Oh wow - I've just got up to speed on this and I too don't think I'll ever sing this without giggling on the inside! Think it might be too late with my current class - but will definitely make sure we change the way we do it in the future! My husband teaches in a school with a hearing impaired unit so I asked him, but he's not got a clue! (He did chuckle though!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louby loo Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Well, interestingly I asked my hubby what he though the 'sign' meant and he smirked imediately!!!!! and no he doesn't do sign language... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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