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Neg Sessions


titchy
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ok so im stuck! I want to offer a session from 9 to 12:30 wiv 9 - 11:30 being the neg part, then the other session being neg from 12:30 - 3. Question can the 11:30 - 12:30 class as a break as stipulated if a parent wants to use 2 neg sessions in a day cos i wld like to have lunch from 12:30 - 1:30. Help

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No I don't think you can although I am a bit confused as to what you mean - if the 12.30-1.30 is a break ( as in dinner break for all present ?) then thats not covered by the neg sessions - and what will be happening from 11.30 to 12.30 ? Would lunch not have to be 11.30-12.30 if that was the break ? We back to back sessions but as we offer a cooked lunch and it classifys as covering PSHE and aspects of Physical (healthy eating and motor skills) the LEA and OFSTED are happy with that , so our children can do 9-2 or 10-3 , although most opt for 9-3 and pay for the extra hour ( won't be a problem in September) :o

sorry can't be more help really

Jayne

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Have you checked that you still need the break?

 

Our LEA allowed back to back NEG sessions for a while now... we just had the lunch club hour break when we were paid for 2.5 hrs to allow parents to choose to pay the extra hour or half hour for lunch and then collect..

 

so out lunch club was 11.30 to 12.30 allowing any children who were in either morning or afternoon to stay for this period paid

 

some paid for half hour and collected at 12, others an hour so 12/30.. then we had some who started 11.30 or 12.00 for afternoon session...

 

as not all wanted the extra hours we never had with too many children.. they had to book a term at a time and give a weeks notice of stopping.. any changes were at our discretion... and if a parent wanted a short notice place we asked for 24hrs notice and if we had the space they could stay at a higher charge for the one off occasional stay.. meant most booked a regular day.

 

 

I would could see issues having lunch for some of the children but not all ... why do you want that particular time..? may sound good but the children were often ready at 11.30 or 12. and with snack mid afternoon as well it all timed in well...

 

this was all sorted out with the introduction of 3hrs.. no longer an issue..

 

 

Inge

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Lunch can class as part of the NEF and so surely that would mean you can offer the 3 hours then?

 

9 -12 and 12 -3

 

Or am I missing the point somewhere along the line???!!!

 

 

In the past the funding could not be claimed in 2 back to back sessions... so there had to be a break between them, but 2 could be claimed in a day and child could stay all day.. parent just paid for the middle bit.

 

and if only 2.5 hours are currently funded.. I believe not everyone gets 3hrs yet..

 

Inge

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Depends where you are. In Gloucestershire, parents can claim for up to 6 hours per day which would naturally include lunch.

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We get the 15 hours, so in practice this is 6 sessions of 2.5 hours.

 

We don't class the hour lunch as NEG because we discussed it and decided we didn't want to, parents would rather pay for that hour and have the complete additional session.

 

We could have done the 3 hour blocks, just chose not to.

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The recently published code of practice for the flexible 15 hours provision has a couple of interesting elements. One is that "Local authorities should guarantee any parent who wants it access to their free entitlement in the following models:

 

o 3 hours a day over 5 days of the week

o 5 hours a day over 3 days of the week"

 

I'm not sure how the 3 hours a day sessions fit with the 5 hours a day sessions? Are we offering 3 hours or 2 1/2 hour sessions - or both now?

 

Also "Providers can make a reasonable charge for meals provided to children during the day. However, as local authorities are legally required to secure free provision, they must work with providers to ensure that they do not place any conditions of access on the entitlement including payment for meals. For some parents, charges for meals may present a significant barrier, which in practice denies children access to the free entitlement. Local authorities should work with providers to ensure that, where children are accessing the free entitlement over the lunch period, any charge that a provider makes for lunch has been agreed with parents in advance, and that parents are given the option of providing a packed lunch if this would be more affordable."

 

Since we strive to encourage all our children to eat a well balanced cooked meal prepared on site, we are concerned that we will now have to allow lunch boxes full of goodness knows what - 2 problems with this - the goodness knows what could be a packet of custard creams (I have actual experience of this!) so that the individual is not getting a nutritious meal (and not helping with targets to reduce obesity) and secondly everyone else wants what he/she is having! We will also have to find additional cold storage for the lunch box to prevent potential food poisoning (although how do schools get away with it?)

 

Just thought I'd throw this in!

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Actually, there is less hassle and rules and regs if the children bring in their own packed lunch. Ours do and we do not provide cold storage (apart from being in a cold church hall!!) If you are not preparing or providing the food then lunch boxes can be stored out of a fridge.

However I do see your point about some having packed lunches and some having yours. I think that whoever sat down and thought up all these rules and regulations surrounding NEG didn't even consider how a business could function properly with them.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I went to our LEA meeting this week. We have to offer 3 hours a day over 5 days a week or 5 hours a day over 3 days a week. The LEA stressed that this is the minimum offer all parents can expect within our area though not necessarily at the parents provider of choice.

 

Please bear with me whilst I think this through, if you are wondering what the clunking noise is, that's my brain!

 

We currently offer 9.00 to 3.30 with an hour for lunch from 12.00 till 1.00 pm so technically I don't think we need to change our hours at all. However, the imposition of the extra half an hour on the end of the day last year wasn't altogether popular because First School finishes at 3.15 pm (before my time), though parents may have become accustomed to it now.

 

The introduction of the 15 hours would seem a good opportunity to seek parents opinions as to our opening hours especially as we intend to increase our hourly rate and by reducing our hours parents would not necessarily need to pay anything, unless they needed our breakfast or after school club. However I feel I need to highlight the benefits and pitfalls of each. Before I did that I thought it would be a good idea to run it by others who have either sorted it out or are in the process of sorting it out, and this might help to clarify your thoughts as well as mine. My main concern is how to fit in lunch.

 

Option 1) 2 x 2.5 hours plus lunch inbetween

 

9.00 - 11.30 11.30 - 12. 30 (lunch) 12.30 - 3.00

 

Parents could take 2.5 hours morning or afternoon (6 sessions a week), 3.5 hours to include lunch (am or pm) or 6 hours in one day.

 

This way, unless they did 6 x 2.5 hours, if they did 2.5 days that would only equate to 14.5 hours of the 15 hours, unless they had a lunch club.

 

Option 2) 2 x 3 hour sessions

 

9.00 - 12.00 12.00 - 3.00 with lunch being included in the afternoon session (do others do this, is this allowed?)

 

Parents could have 5 x 3 hours morning or afternoon or again 6 hours per day. If we had a separate hour for lunch in the afternoon with a 2 hour session after, it might mean that some parents might add the lunch hour to the morning and we might find that we wouldn't have space for children wanting a 3 hour afternoon session.

 

Parents could take up their entitlement over 5 mornings or afternoons, or 2 full days and a morning or afternoon.

 

This would fit in with collecting Reception children at 12.00 from school in the Autumn.

 

 

Option 3 - stay as we are - 1 x 3 hour session, lunch and 1 x 2.5 hour session

 

9.00 - 12.00 12.00 - 1.00 1.00 - 3.30

 

Parents could have 5 x 3 hours. Our LEA haven't set the maximum number of hours yet, they are looking at 6.5 hours maximum entitlement in one day, so parents could do two whole days free totalling 13 hours, leaving 2 hours of entitlement to claim so they would need to pay for an extra 1/2 an hour or hour depending what additional session they took up.

 

It seems logical to me to work in multiples of 3 hours so that parents do not necessarily need to pay extra over and above their free entitlement. Perhaps we could stipulate that parents could claim up to 6 hours in one day? I need to check with our local SureStart advisor.

 

I wrote this response, then thought perhaps I should have started another topic but cannot seem to copy all this to a new post. In trying to do so I have altered the font! I don't want to risk losing all this which I have done on many an occasion.

 

My brain hurts now, what do you all do or what are you all thinking of doing?

 

 

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The setting when I left was on the 2 sessions a day with lunch club for an hour in the middle.. as you say the lunch club was available to am and pm sessions.. we were open 9.00 to 3pm though...

 

when they got the 3hr funding last sept.. they just changed to 2 x 3 hr sessions..

 

children staying all day have lunch from around 11.55 to 12.15 ish... but as it is a cafe style it is possible for them to have earlier or later... a table is set and children access it.. if they had not come by 12.15 they are called to lunch...

 

afternoon children are allowed to come with a lunch box and sit and have lunch before going to play.. and morning children if parents wanted could have a lunch box to eat just before leaving.. in reality this seldom happens and in the most part children have lunch from 12.00 ...

 

doing it this way the children leaving would be in a different area to those staying.. children coming in would join those staying as they find a large number turn up with lunch box... 12.00 is early start to have already given lunch..

 

It seems to be working well, changeover has been sorted.. as this was the crunch time.. children going, some staying, some coming.. just had to ensure good staff deployment ... and it is a time when all staff are there... and if a shift change the afternoon and morning staff are all there so extra for the 10 min it takes..

 

Inge

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Thanks Inge for your reply, very helpful to see how things are actually working in practice. Very interesting what you say about a cafe style lunch too.....more things to think about.

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