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kittycat1279
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This is a bit of a mammoth one but after a few really fraught days with one particular child I need other people's perspective. Forgive me for the huge message but I copied it from the behaviour diary I have started. When he started school he was a stubborn about tidying up and needed to be taught how to cross his legs but rose to the challenge. He was soon coming to the carpet and crossing his legs without needing any reminding. His was still stubborn about tidying up and doing ‘work’ type activities but this was not unusual. His behaviour a few weeks into school when he started to pretend to be asleep as an avoidance strategy this included sitting and listening to a story with TA2. However he did respond to strategies that we had in place. Despite behaviour that he is currently exhibiting he is a thoroughly likeable child.

 

Thursday 8th October 2009

When getting ready for our walk, the child was discovered with a plastic bag over his head. I quickly removed it from his head. When talking to him about it afterwards he seemed unaware of why this was not a good idea. I talked it through with him and he seemed to understand.

 

Friday 9th October 2009

Except for a few stubborn moments the morning was fairly incident free. In the afternoon, we did PE in our shorts and t-shirts for the first time. He needed a bit more teacher focus to get him to get changed and organise his things but this was partly as it was such a big comparison to the independence of the other children. He had to sit out in PE due to getting silly and not responding when asked to stop. When it came to getting changed he started to behave in a very silly way. He was not listening when given instructions of what to do and instead decided to spin his PE bag round his leg and went into another teacher’s room doing this. When I spoke to him he started to laugh. Then I got eye contact with him and spoke to him in a cross voice telling him what I expected him to do, he did respond. We then had assembly which he sat and listened in. After assembly it was time for home and instead of bringing his things to the carpet he was by the coat pegs spinning around and laughing. When I went out to speak to him, he said he didn’t want to go home because he loves school! I said that it was good that he liked school but that he needed to get ready for home. He then looked at me, smiled and then ran into the other room, giggling and hiding behind the door. He then was very resistant to going into the classroom and each time we sat down together he turned to me and smiled saying ‘I’m going to run away!’ The only thing that seemed to calm him down was walking down the corridor looking at the coloured lights on the ceiling.

 

Monday 12th October 2009

The child took a toy from another child and when I called him to come and speak to me he ignored me. I then went and got him and explained that I was cross because he had not listened to me when I spoke to him. I then set him a challenge to come to when I asked him to. We practised. I later called him and he came straight to me and so I rewarded him with a sticker and lots of praise. After playtime he sat on the carpet for our phonics time and was no problem. There were incidents until tidying up time at the end of the morning when he refused to tidy up laughing when being asked to do so. I said that we were all tidying up and help him stand up he lifted his legs up so that he was dangling. When I tried again he yanked himself down, hurting his arm a bit in process. (He could have hurt me if I wasn't so sturdy!) I said to him that he had the choice of tidying up now or he would have to do it at lunch time and walked away. He came and sat on the carpet once we were all tidied. He sat by me while I was reading the story and proceeded to wobble my chair and slide underneath it. I told him he was to sit still and if he couldn’t he would have to go down for his lunch late. He didn’t want to do this so sat sensibly. I collected him from the playground at lunch time and gave him tidy up jobs while I made a reward chart for him that we’d spoken about. We also chatted about what sort of behaviour is good. Everything was going well until it came to tidy up time outside and he ran away from TA1. When I tried to speak to him, he also started to run away laughing. I told him to come with me and we walked down to year 2. I took him into another teacher, whose class all listened when I told her that he was choosing to run away when asked to tidy up. We also put forward the suggestion that he stayed in there to see how to sit nicely. This he did not want and said he would tidy up. We went back to the classroom and he said sorry to TA1 and stayed to tidy. TA1 informed me later that he had helped for a bit but then proceeded to be silly. I found him jobs to do for tidying up time and was able to reward him on his chart. They then went to assembly. Another teacher had to remove his sweatshirt as he was swinging the arm around. When they came back from assembly, I said that I was looking for him sitting on the carpet so that he could get another reward token. With the enticement of another child’s sweets for his birthday he came and sat on the carpet. We talked about assembly and removed a token but the he was able to put one up for his good sitting on the carpet.

 

At the moment I feel that he is in control and I am fighting to gain control over him. No child has ever got the better of me and this child certainly won't be the first but it is really starting to get to me. Mum seems supportive but doesn't seem to indicate that there are any problems at home. Saying that, he is an only child and so I reckon he rules the roost!

 

Any suggestions, advice, words of support would be appreciated as I'm feeling rather low tonight. :o

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Ok , first of all I guess you are doing everything your schools behaviour policy suggests? Positive behaviour strategies etc? Can you chat to your school SENCO who may have some ideas and can offer support!

 

I supported an EAL child in reception, he was so hard to deal with that the school paid for extra support. We used a carpet tile for him to sit on during carpet time, if too disruptive we had to sit ouside in the corridor. I wrote social stories for him to explain about lining up - he always wanted to be at the front! You could do one for tidying up? maybe he has never had to do it at home? Find a reward he would really like- time on the computer? and use that as a carrot. Personally, i feel rewards should not be taken away and each day starts a new.

 

I think you sound very patient and am sending you big hugs, you give loads of fab advice to everyone else and am sure someone will suggest something that works! :o

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Thanks - I have spoken to the SENCO and she is going to see him tomorrow if she can if not on Wednesday when she's in to cover PPA. I do not usually take rewards away but as he does not seem to respond to other things I thought it would be something that can have impact. We are of course giving the rewards for smaller things than they are removed for!

 

Anyway thanks for your words of encouragement.

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I can only empathise. Sounds like you have your hands full. Have you read any of Bill Rodgers books, I have found that really helpful in the past and there is a new one for Early years.

 

Thanks - I'll look it up.

 

Just looked at it on Amazon - looks good so I've ordered it.

Edited by SP61HJ
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You say Mum is supportive so perhaps a joint approach could work? Could you arrange to have a quick feedback session at the end of each day where the three of you discuss the positive and negative aspects of the day? Or maybe a daily diary where you decide together what you will write in for Mum to read when he gets home?

 

My daughter was horrified when I informed her that her teacher and I would exchange information each day when she had been persistently chatting when she was supposed to be working.

 

I think the key is to involve him in the feedback so he feel's involved and responsible.

 

Good luck and keep caring xx

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Thanks Upsy Daisy

 

I was thinking on the lines of a home-school book but it's a good idea getting the child involved so he is aware of what is being written. I will march forward with positivity, confidence ad determination! My stress tummy is already being alleviated. Of course that could also be thanks to the hot water bottle and cup of hot water i'm drinking!!! xx

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Narnia, If it wasn't said to him, then I think it's okay to express frustration? You're right though that it's better to label the behaviour rather than the child.

 

My take on this is different - from reading your post I don't think he's got SEN issues, rather it's a control thing as you've sensed (although ADHD might be a possibility - speak to your SENCO). I think you're reinforcing his behaviour by all this attention. Okay, you need to sort him out if he's doing something dangerous, but otherwise you are simply encouraging him because every time he does something silly you pay him attention. Personally I would spend a few days NOT focusing on every little thing and see if that has an impact. Ignore him and you might find that the misbehaviour dissipates of its own accord.

 

Just a thought!

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Some sound advice so far. Have you had any contact with his previous (nursery) setting? It might be an idea to contact them to see if the behaviour was similar there, and which strategies they might have found successful.

 

I would concentrate on just one aspect of behaviour that you most want to change, and insist on that improved behaviour, whilst ignoring if at all possible, the other minor stuff which you can address at a later date.

 

Narnia, I don't think SP6 called the child stubborn and silly; I think she was careful to phrase things sensitively; "Stubborn about tidying up", "behaved in a very silly way", etc. I think we can all picture exactly what she means xD and appreciate how frustrating and disruptive this little boy's behaviour is.

 

Do keep us up to date with how things are going, and I hope the next few days start to show signs of improvement. Good luck :o

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I'm pre-school, not primary, but I agree with all that has so far been said, I think the problem lies for adults in that the other children are watching our every move - and may be thinking along the lines of 'why shouldn't I do that?'

 

At the present time I have 4 children, one of whom is about to be given a diagnosis of Aspergers, and 3 others who really are on the spectrum but haven't been diagnosed, you can imagine how disrupted the group can appear to be some days when these four children begin to copy each other either by action, echoing and /or 'dangerous' stunts.

 

We are on the whole coping, but have thus far found the start to this current term exhausting, and the other children are beginning to question the behaviour of their peers, just trying to explain/justify what is happening some days is difficult.

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Well firstly I had a much more positive day today. Writing everything down yesterday helped to pinpoint trigger points.

 

In response to Narnia I have never labelled a child as silly or stubborn but as Helen and Suzie referred to, I was talking about his behaviour. I am very particular about that when I talk to a child but do feel that children need to know our opinions on their behaviour. I'm not one to get upset about other people's comments but feel in this situation if you haven't got anything constructive to say it is better not to say anything at all.

 

Thank you to everyone else for their helpful comments. I went in with a I shall not be beaten attitude today. I spoke to him early on about what he finds hard and he did say tidying up so we have agreed on a small tidying up job for him to do - tucking in the computer chairs. He can then come and sit on the carpet to show he's finished or if he wants to he can find something else to tidy. I became aware last night that he was finding the transition times hard so I spent time today prewarning him about what we were doing next and what I was expecting of him. It took a lot of time on my part but I feel the time I'm spending has a smaller impact on the rest of the class than them seeing the extreme behaviour. We had a few incidents of defiance and being hissed but we have done lots of talking through expectations and acceptable behaviour. I have tried ignoring the bad behaviour and really focussing on the good which works to a certain extent but if he doesn't get the attention he makes his behaviour worse. I am hoping in time he will realise though that he is getting attention that is positive for good things and stop doing the silly things.

 

In a few days I am going to ask mum to come in for a chat to talk about our strategies in school and about setting up a home-school book so that I can give her positives as well as any behaviour issues. On a 'ah bless him' moment. After I had to speak to him when he threw off his builders hat in temper today and then he hissed and clawed at me, he went in and a little while later he came out and said I've made you a pencil to cheer you up. So he really is such a lovable chap :o

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Oh, I'm glad you had a better day!

 

What a positive sign that he realised he'd upset you and tried to make you feel better.

 

Hang in there and hopefully the steps you've taken and are planning to take will pay off.

 

Nona

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You have my every sympathies. I know only too well the frustration that you are feeling and how just one child can turn a whole day topsy-turvy and make you wonder why you are bothering to get out of bed.

 

I think the strategies you are putting in place sound very good - in the past I've made a big thing of rewarding other children for doing tasks without actually asking for them to do something and this has helped the child to see that rewards (and my pleasure) are worth earning.

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I'm pre-school, not primary, but I agree with all that has so far been said, I think the problem lies for adults in that the other children are watching our every move - and may be thinking along the lines of 'why shouldn't I do that?'

 

At the present time I have 4 children, one of whom is about to be given a diagnosis of Aspergers, and 3 others who really are on the spectrum but haven't been diagnosed, you can imagine how disrupted the group can appear to be some days when these four children begin to copy each other either by action, echoing and /or 'dangerous' stunts.

 

We are on the whole coping, but have thus far found the start to this current term exhausting, and the other children are beginning to question the behaviour of their peers, just trying to explain/justify what is happening some days is difficult.

 

Sorry Panders, completely missed your post - that does sound tough. I always think with behaviour issues it is the impact on the other children which is the hardest part in it all and they are always my priority. At the end of the day we as adults can learn to cope but the children shouldn't have to.

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In response to Narnia I have never labelled a child as silly or stubborn but as Helen and Suzie referred to, I was talking about his behaviour. I am very particular about that when I talk to a child but do feel that children need to know our opinions on their behaviour. I'm not one to get upset about other people's comments but feel in this situation if you haven't got anything constructive to say it is better not to say anything at all.

 

 

Ok, something 'constructive'.....................from my own point of view: the original post was peppered with the use of the words 'stubborn' and 'silly'..........I found that sad, and said so.I quite understood that you were referring to the child's behaviour, but I have often found that when if comments such as those are used ABOUT a child, even if not TO him, it's an underlying indication of how we actually feel about the child and this can come across through the attitude used with that child, and it makes me sad.......and I said so. Kindly allow me to have, and voice, my opinion. I am always happy to be put straight if and when I ask for help, advice, opinions on here, as should anyone else, including you. I sometimes read threads that make me wince........and don't always answer them because of this. However, if I'm not allowed an opinion because it offends you, then of course,I not only apologise unreservedly, but I withdraw from future postings.Please feel free to pm me should you wish to continue this.

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Thankfully some while ago I had a child displaying v. similar behaviour traits. Lots of constant low level disruption which was difficult to categorise. Each incident taken separately did not seem too bad, but add them together day after day and it was a different story. The child seemed to be using this behaviour to control his environment, circumstances and interactions - the child also demonstrated some extremely aggressive behaviour towards other children but was actually v. clever in the way that the incidents were instigated.

 

We had some support from our LA Behaviour Support Teacher - the result was a v. robust behaviour management plan with a zero tolerance approach. Every tiny incident was to be dealt with firmly and using specific documented techniques. There was a lot of seclusion for "misdemeanours" which meant either removing the child or the rest of the class to take away the audience.

 

We ended up drawing up a home/school behaviour management agreement but were unable to get parental support. The child's primary carer did not believe that the behaviour and aggression being exhibited was hugely problematical!!

 

At least you have parental support - perhaps your LA has a Behaviour Support Teacher or specialist who may be able to devise a specific approach for this particular child.

 

I know it is very difficult when one individual changes the dynamics of a group in such a way - you have my sympathy!

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Not a bad day. The biggest issue now is the end of the day when he refuses to get ready and runs around the unit but goes no further. We left him to run around, I popped out a few times pretending to look for other things and taking no notice of his 'come and catch me calls'. I then went out when everyone else was ready and took him by the hand saying it is time to come in and he did. Things then weren't helped as one of the TAs collected all his things up - my view is that he has a choice to behave or not so by collecting his things it's almost saying that the behaviour was ok. Oh well I'll have to tactfully mention that tomorrow! Feeling like progress is being made now though.

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my view is that he has a choice to behave or not

Re-reading your initial post earlier it did strike me that when you outline his options and encourage him to choose what to do he seems to respond well and makes a choice to behave appropriately. It did make me smile to think of you appearing to be busy doing something else all the while ignoring his attempts to draw you into an argument. He must have been so disappointed when you didn't rise to the bait!

 

I'm glad to hear you sounding so much more positive - as you say staff consistency will be crucial in getting him over this difficult patch.

 

Good luck - hope tomorrow is even better!

 

Maz

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Completely off topic - I was very confused earlier - you've changed your name!!

Glad you're having a better time - just keep positive and looking after yourself outside of school so you don't get burnt out - I've got one very challenging behavioural issue at school this year and I can always tell a day when I've managed the behaviour well, with lots of trigger spotting, distraction, diffusing and pre-empting - because I come home completely exhausted!!! (And the behaviour log just reports violence against inanimate objects!) So make sure you're taking care of you, too.

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Well today was the best day of all. We've been trying to ignore the bad behaviour as much as possible and pre-empt any major outburst. We seem to have more or less sorted out the tidying up issue with me taking him by the hand and saying lets go and do your job. Today I taught him how to shut down the computers so we may be able to add that to his jobs as well. The end of the day was horrendous yesterday and I almost had him sitting with our head as he was just refusing telling me that he was going to change the rules and be even worse! I decided that we needed to do something as it just adds stress to the end of the day. So my TA is going to take him at 2.45 to the library to read a story, play a game etc... so that he is getting 1:1 attention but not for anything negative. It also means he is building relationships with someone else. She brings him back at 3 by which time I will be opening the door to let the other children out thus giving him no attention as it is obvious that I am busy. We did that for the first time today and worked really well so fingers crossed!

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Its really good that you're able to think around the problems you are faced with and be proactive now. I know that you mentioned earlier that this little chap had seemed to get worse when you ignored his bad behaviour. This is actually quite a normal reaction to having the attention removed. He now feels the need to 'step it up' to get the same attention as before. This is obviously how he has learnt to get attention in the past and he now needs to 'unlearn' this and learn that he can get attention for doing good things. The one to one time with your TA will hopefully be excellent for reinforcing this.

 

I think often the main problem when dealing with behaviour issues is that practitioners can feel helpless and out of control themselves which leads to a feeling of failure. However, this is an area of development that children need to travel through and some need more help than others. The trick is to see it as an area of learning, just the same as physical skill or other areas of development.

 

Good luck! :o

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  • 3 weeks later...
This is a bit of a mammoth one but after a few really fraught days with one particular child I need other people's perspective. Forgive me for the huge message but I copied it from the behaviour diary I have started. When he started school he was a stubborn about tidying up and needed to be taught how to cross his legs but rose to the challenge. He was soon coming to the carpet and crossing his legs without needing any reminding. His was still stubborn about tidying up and doing ‘work’ type activities but this was not unusual. His behaviour a few weeks into school when he started to pretend to be asleep as an avoidance strategy this included sitting and listening to a story with TA2. However he did respond to strategies that we had in place. Despite behaviour that he is currently exhibiting he is a thoroughly likeable child.

 

Thursday 8th October 2009

When getting ready for our walk, the child was discovered with a plastic bag over his head. I quickly removed it from his head. When talking to him about it afterwards he seemed unaware of why this was not a good idea. I talked it through with him and he seemed to understand.

 

Friday 9th October 2009

Except for a few stubborn moments the morning was fairly incident free. In the afternoon, we did PE in our shorts and t-shirts for the first time. He needed a bit more teacher focus to get him to get changed and organise his things but this was partly as it was such a big comparison to the independence of the other children. He had to sit out in PE due to getting silly and not responding when asked to stop. When it came to getting changed he started to behave in a very silly way. He was not listening when given instructions of what to do and instead decided to spin his PE bag round his leg and went into another teacher’s room doing this. When I spoke to him he started to laugh. Then I got eye contact with him and spoke to him in a cross voice telling him what I expected him to do, he did respond. We then had assembly which he sat and listened in. After assembly it was time for home and instead of bringing his things to the carpet he was by the coat pegs spinning around and laughing. When I went out to speak to him, he said he didn’t want to go home because he loves school! I said that it was good that he liked school but that he needed to get ready for home. He then looked at me, smiled and then ran into the other room, giggling and hiding behind the door. He then was very resistant to going into the classroom and each time we sat down together he turned to me and smiled saying ‘I’m going to run away!’ The only thing that seemed to calm him down was walking down the corridor looking at the coloured lights on the ceiling.

 

Monday 12th October 2009

The child took a toy from another child and when I called him to come and speak to me he ignored me. I then went and got him and explained that I was cross because he had not listened to me when I spoke to him. I then set him a challenge to come to when I asked him to. We practised. I later called him and he came straight to me and so I rewarded him with a sticker and lots of praise. After playtime he sat on the carpet for our phonics time and was no problem. There were incidents until tidying up time at the end of the morning when he refused to tidy up laughing when being asked to do so. I said that we were all tidying up and help him stand up he lifted his legs up so that he was dangling. When I tried again he yanked himself down, hurting his arm a bit in process. (He could have hurt me if I wasn't so sturdy!) I said to him that he had the choice of tidying up now or he would have to do it at lunch time and walked away. He came and sat on the carpet once we were all tidied. He sat by me while I was reading the story and proceeded to wobble my chair and slide underneath it. I told him he was to sit still and if he couldn’t he would have to go down for his lunch late. He didn’t want to do this so sat sensibly. I collected him from the playground at lunch time and gave him tidy up jobs while I made a reward chart for him that we’d spoken about. We also chatted about what sort of behaviour is good. Everything was going well until it came to tidy up time outside and he ran away from TA1. When I tried to speak to him, he also started to run away laughing. I told him to come with me and we walked down to year 2. I took him into another teacher, whose class all listened when I told her that he was choosing to run away when asked to tidy up. We also put forward the suggestion that he stayed in there to see how to sit nicely. This he did not want and said he would tidy up. We went back to the classroom and he said sorry to TA1 and stayed to tidy. TA1 informed me later that he had helped for a bit but then proceeded to be silly. I found him jobs to do for tidying up time and was able to reward him on his chart. They then went to assembly. Another teacher had to remove his sweatshirt as he was swinging the arm around. When they came back from assembly, I said that I was looking for him sitting on the carpet so that he could get another reward token. With the enticement of another child’s sweets for his birthday he came and sat on the carpet. We talked about assembly and removed a token but the he was able to put one up for his good sitting on the carpet.

 

At the moment I feel that he is in control and I am fighting to gain control over him. No child has ever got the better of me and this child certainly won't be the first but it is really starting to get to me. Mum seems supportive but doesn't seem to indicate that there are any problems at home. Saying that, he is an only child and so I reckon he rules the roost!

 

Any suggestions, advice, words of support would be appreciated as I'm feeling rather low tonight. :o

 

 

 

Hi there

 

I know exactly how you feel. i have a 3 year old who when he doesnt get what he wants or things dont work at the way he wants them to he explodes!!! I have been screamed at, hit, punched and lots more. It became such an issue as i was going home feeling low and knackered. I felt for the other children who were witnessing this outburst of behaviour and most importantly I was concerned for the stafey of everyone else.

 

I decide to act and spoke to the childs parents who agreed for me to speak to our local authority advisor. She came out and observed the child. He had one or two little incidents but nothing major like he has done before. She advised us to use a persona doll and tell a story using it about behaviour and say that the persona doll hurt a child at his nursery........ The best suggestion was adult role play. I am to sit and have a outburst like him with another member of staff. This gives them opportunity to see it differently and talk about it.

 

Hope this helps

 

Keep smiling

 

Alison

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Hi there

 

I know exactly how you feel. i have a 3 year old who when he doesnt get what he wants or things dont work at the way he wants them to he explodes!!! I have been screamed at, hit, punched and lots more. It became such an issue as i was going home feeling low and knackered. I felt for the other children who were witnessing this outburst of behaviour and most importantly I was concerned for the stafey of everyone else.

 

I decide to act and spoke to the childs parents who agreed for me to speak to our local authority advisor. She came out and observed the child. He had one or two little incidents but nothing major like he has done before. She advised us to use a persona doll and tell a story using it about behaviour and say that the persona doll hurt a child at his nursery........ The best suggestion was adult role play. I am to sit and have a outburst like him with another member of staff. This gives them opportunity to see it differently and talk about it.

 

Hope this helps

 

Keep smiling

 

Alison

 

Thanks Alison

 

Things seemed to calm down in the week or so before half term. He has his tidying up job related to the computers (which he loves) he even shuts them down at the end of each day which saves us lots of time! He will try and kick off at tidy up time but I am just very positive in saying you need to do your little job. If he starts to protest I tell him he either tidies up or has to sit in the corridor, he can't continue playing. So far he has chosen to tidy up and then he gets his reward token. Home time is still a slight issue but we have combated this by my TA taking him to the library while everyone else is getting ready. It seems to be that transition time that he finds hard as when he comes back down and everyone else is ready he is fine. We spoke to his parents just before the holiday and mum didn't seem to indicate that she has any problems but dad did, we wondered whether mum lets him get his own way so never has to challenge him.

 

Anyway, thanks again for your message

 

Good luck to you too.

 

Kittycat

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You know Kittycat, I think part of his problem is that he loves being in your class so much, there's plenty to do and so much fun and stimulation for him that when there is a hint that this is to end, for whatever reason, he kicks off a bit. It's really a compliment to you, that he doesn't want it all to end.

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  • 3 weeks later...
You know Kittycat, I think part of his problem is that he loves being in your class so much, there's plenty to do and so much fun and stimulation for him that when there is a hint that this is to end, for whatever reason, he kicks off a bit. It's really a compliment to you, that he doesn't want it all to end.

 

Sorry Panders, I must have missed your message - thanks that was lovely :o

 

To update you, we have really turned a corner. He is continuing to do his tidy up job, occasionally he starts to say no so i tell him he either tidies up or will have to sit in the corridor and so far it's worked! He even shuts down all the computers at the end of the day! At getting ready for home time he no longer needs to go to the library with my TA but comes to me and says can you help me so I started by holding his hand for all of it and now i go into the corridor and remind him what he needs to collect each time.

 

This afternoon afternoon was lovely too as he discovered 2create a story so we went on the IWB and he drew the pictures and told me what to write, he then recorded his story. By page 4 he was doing the typing with me telling him the letters needed, then by page 5 he was using his sounds to do the typing himself. I was so proud. We printed off the story and he went and showed it to our HT, he then played the story to the rest of the class and they loved it! We have put it in his learning journal and he was going to asked his mummy to come in and look at it but unfortunately, when he was telling his mummy she evidently wasn't listening. Such a shame, after all the negative things, for her not to respond to something so positive. I will try and catch her in the morning - I've left his book out to remind me!!! Anyway, I'm hoping he can be my star of the week as it's been a really positive week so far lets hope he continues this tomorrow!

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