Alison Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 well we had our local early years advisors do their ecers visit today and its been so stressfull there where 4 advisors all nice and polite we get on fairly well but it was observation and box checking overload I feel like everything "needs attention" (they havent commented but as I handed over the planning I thought "its not right its not good enough" so I have spent the morning feeling very paranoid. to add to the chaos I was missing two staff one was on a course the other has been called for jury service so we where working with minimum staff trying to give a good professional impression, what with eyfs, eyps, ofsted, sef, keeping up with training, planning, learning journeys the day today admin and now ecers my head hurts! my deputy asked me how I thought we had got on and I said "I was passed caring!" I hate to speak like that about work but Im starting to wonder when the paperwork will ever stop cus I feel a little overwhelmed today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 You have my every sympathy! We've got our EYQISP at 3pm the day before we break up would you believe - I think I'll be 'past caring' by then too!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Alison - I think a lot of us are feeling like that just now - I wish we could just be 'left alone' to enjoy these last few weeks of the summer term. Cait - you poor thing - that's awful - I would have told them that I was too busy - parties, end of year celebrations - or some other fabrication Sunnyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 well i did tell them that I hoped they weren't expecting me to make sense - AND WAS MET WITH A VERY PUZZLED LOOK!!! hahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 well i did tell them that I hoped they weren't expecting me to make sense - AND WAS MET WITH A VERY PUZZLED LOOK!!! hahahaha OOO!!! Guess what - they came today! end of the day, without any warning there they were! End of year no good for them either!!!! Took over 2 hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 but do you really believe they all actually know what they are talking about, we have had a couple of different ones, each tellling us different things, and left the staff feeling very deflated and i know how hard they all work trying their hardest to get it just right - you have my sympathy x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Hi Alison, Our setting had the ecers and itters in not so long back. I hate being watched especially on every little thing you say and do. I have to say they were 4 lovely people and i loved them even more when we had our feed back. Yes there was things that needed improving but we achieved scores of 7 throughout majority of the score sheet. Very happy...x Carly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Congrats. Carly - did you have any training before your Ecers? We had ours without.......I wasn't best pleased with some of the 'scores' - although the EYAT (not ours) that carried out the 'inspection' assured me they were above average Sunnyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 OOO!!! Guess what - they came today! end of the day, without any warning there they were! End of year no good for them either!!!! Took over 2 hours Are there plans to carry out these EYQISP 'inspections' nationwide? Hope not Sunnyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 We had ours without.......I wasn't best pleased with some of the 'scores' - although the EYAT (not ours) that carried out the 'inspection' assured me they were above average I think this is quite normal, sunnyday - ECERS is a very rigorous audit because it really does look at every detail of your environment. I've heard that people who got an Outstanding Ofsted have been disappointed with their results too. Have you drawn up an action plan yet? Maz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Hi, Sunnyday We were told they were coming with about 2 weeks notice. Our manager, deputy and senior (me) spent time working within the different rooms helping develop them with big bold pictures, different languages within the developmental areas. Myself and my room members took alot of pride in setting the room purely for all children, making the room full of their interests. The children were brilliant (usually they love other people attending the setting but love to "play up" and say things they know they can get away with.. My early years worked was very pleased with our scores...x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I think this is quite normal, sunnyday - ECERS is a very rigorous audit because it really does look at every detail of your environment. I've heard that people who got an Outstanding Ofsted have been disappointed with their results too. Have you drawn up an action plan yet? Maz Hi Maz - this was ages ago.......probably two or more years - all paperwork at work so can't check.....and yes I have a 'development folder' .......that matches my other 110 folders Sunnyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Yes Sunnyday, one or the other (ECERS or EQISP) it's national I'm afraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Yes Sunnyday, one or the other (ECERS or EQISP) it's national I'm afraid Ah...so as we have had an ECERS we won't get EQISP?! Here's hoping! Sunnyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Fingers crossed for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundia Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Our LA is 'doing' neither QISP or Ecers and there is no statutory requirement to. Each LA makes its own decision about how it supports settings to improve quality and there are a range of audit and quality improvement materials available. WE use a range of materials which may include ECERs or QISP but we also have various other tools at our disposal. I am still uncomfortable with the idea that ECERs is something that is 'done' to you rather than an open dialogue between an advisor/consultant and professional practitioners. I am interested to know what other LAs do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Yes Sunnyday, one or the other (ECERS or EQISP) it's national I'm afraid Nooooooo! You'll put everyone into a flat spin, Cait! Our LA is 'doing' neither QISP or Ecers and there is no statutory requirement to. I think the sudden interest in ECERS has been inspired by the fact that it is mentioned by name in the EYFS materials as being a suitable quality improvement tool. I am still uncomfortable with the idea that ECERs is something that is 'done' to you rather than an open dialogue between an advisor/consultant and professional practitioners. I may have said this before, but our Local Authority is using some of the Quality and Access funding to encourage settings to undertake an ECERS audit of their provision, and when they sign up they get a copy of the relevant scale before the auditor contacts the setting to arrange a date. All settings have also been invited to attend a presentation about how the scales work prior to signing up. Once the audit has been done, the setting receives feedback about how the scores were arrived at, and from here an action plan can be drawn up which reflects the setting's priorities for improvement with input from their development worker. This will also help them decide what to spend their grant money on. We're at an early stage so we don't really know how it will all work, but certainly amongst our auditors there is certainly not a feeling that we are there to 'do' ECERS to them. Time will tell whether settings feel that way though - and I'm sure they'll let us know exactly what they feel! Maz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I thought that self-assessment and self-reflection were the agreed ways forward. Ok, to have a fresh pair of eyes looking at the provision can be helpful, but that should be done in agreement with the setting and in a supportive way. I did not want to be an inspector but wanted to support others, which was why I became an EYAT and did not join Ofsted! For all of us I Believe it should be a journey and constant improvement. The posts above seem to give the impression that ECERS is being used almost an another inspection - but maybe I am interpreting this wrongly. Gruffalo2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I thought that self-assessment and self-reflection were the agreed ways forward. Self-reflection is important but if that was the end of the story you'd be out of a job! ECERS (at least in our Borough) is voluntary whereas Ofsted is mandatory. ECERS allows you to decide your own priorities for improvement, but with clear guidance about what steps need to be taken in order to move onto the next level of the scale. Mrs Ofsted will tell you what you aren't doing, but may not be so forthcoming in helping you to make the necessary improvement. The ECERS scales are grounded in research into what constitutes a quality environment and the criteria is the same wherever the scale is used. The outcome of an Ofsted inspection can vary depending on the Inspector's own personal viewpoint and interpretation of what quality is. Having endured an Ofsted inspection and carried out an ECERS audit on my own setting, I know which I'd choose! Maz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Perhaps I didn't express my thoughts very clearly. I agree totally that Mrs O only tells you what you have NOT done, and only wish 'she' did offer more recommendation on how to move to the next level. What concerned me was that the early posts on this topic seem to be implying that ECERS was being made mandatory and people were seeing it like an inspection. I think it is very important that we have a range of self-evaluation tools to use as they all have a slightly different emphasis, and ECERS is just one of these. I have used it myself, but only in coming alongside a setting to help them identify for themselves the way forward for their particular setting. As for EYATs being out of a job because of the importance of self-reflection/evaluation - I think that it is very very helpful to have someone else to 'bounce ideas off' and who can drop in suggestions of possible ways forward. The setting can then decide themselves how they want to move on. Hopefully most people have EYATs who can do this in a supportive way, but recognise that, as with all job roles, some will be better than others. I feel a little sad when I read posts that imply that the EYAT visit is seen as a nuisance and not helpful, although I recognise that this will be the truth sometimes. Just to set the record straight - I am no longer an EYAT, but have moved sideways to a role in a Children's Centre that I adore! Perhaps I myself am doing a little 'bouncing ideas around' by adding this post, but that is what I love about this forum. We can all throw our ideas into the arena and hear other's opinions - and it doesn't matter what role people happen to have as we all have a valuable contribution. I can land up being challenged about my own practice by the newest, youngest practitioner. So thanks to all who make a contribution on here. Gruffalo2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Hi Gruffalo2 When we had our ECERS it was a completely new concept - we were not given any training and were not able to see a 'booklet' beforehand - now with hindsight, I should have researched online - it was so well 'played down' at the time that I think I felt too confident and comfortable. As I said I wasn't best pleased with our scores - despite the EYAT telling me that they were above average - the process was 'painless' - but I wish we had been better prepared. I have since read on here that people have been offered training?! Meant to check this morning to see how long ago it was - completely forgot - doh! Think it was over two years ago. Would now really welcome the chance to have another ECERS and improve those scores - silly really, it doesn't make any difference to anyone but me - it's just a case of me taking a pride in my setting! As for my feelings about our EYAT - she is lovely, an ex reception teacher with nursery experience thrown in for good measure! Sad to say she is retiring this year - hope we are lucky enough to get another one like her! Sunnyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 We can all throw our ideas into the arena and hear other's opinions - and it doesn't matter what role people happen to have as we all have a valuable contribution. I can land up being challenged about my own practice by the newest, youngest practitioner. Sounds to me like we're singing from the same hymn sheet regarding ECERS, and I certainly agree about the bad press advisory teachers get on here (second only to the grumbles about parents but that's a hobby horse for another time!). As for having our practice challenged, I'd say that sometimes the best challenges come from the new entrants into the team because they're the ones who need to ask the most questions in order to work out why we do things the way we do. Long may it continue! Maz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 Congrats. Carly - did you have any training before your Ecers? We had ours without.......I wasn't best pleased with some of the 'scores' - although the EYAT (not ours) that carried out the 'inspection' assured me they were above average Sunnyday I hadnt recieved any training before the eckers visit and I didnt know anything about how they where going to assess us so I made no attempt the "try to impress" either I wanted to see how good we did at our most basic before I panic about what we need to improve on. I supose I didnt feel the session was a particulary outstanding session and I know we need a drastic restock of toys and equipment plus the store cupboard was in its mid term chaos stage with boxes mixed up and all sorts of stuff missing or broken, my planning went out the window with the introduction of the EYFS so I cannt see how I could possibly get a good score this time, hopefully once we get our feed back I will then know what they are looking for and I can look to move on from there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 (edited) Well the team of two who carried out our EYQISP certainly gave the impression that it was mandatory across the country, as did the letter that arrived on the same day informing us that our setting was due one. By the way they were surprised that we had already carried out an ECERS on ourselves and didn't know anything about some areas choosing to use that system! Edited June 22, 2009 by Cait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I carry out ITERS/ECERS in my nursery. I have had our Early Years team in to do it, but they gave me the books and I do it myself now, I've also done it elsewhere in our sister nurseries and am going on a training course on Thursday about it. It can be very useful and helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyday Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Think I will carry out my own ECERS - I can then use this additional info. when I start my SEF Sunnyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 It's a good plan - it's also great for getting staff involved -we had some very practical and useful discussions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 well I had my feed back for ecers and Im not a happy bunny I felt like the worst leader ever listening to the feed back there where issues I need to address which I will tackle but there where lots of recomendations that I totally disagree with and as an expereinced eyp I dont feel its fair to make me feel like crap because our small pack away group cannt tick half the boxes because of limits on the way we store and set out the room I value the input and some times it takes a fresh pair of eyes to see things that need improving and I will admit that there are several aspects of my sessions that I am not happy with at the moment there are several "bad habits" that I have noticed creaping into the session and there are aspects of training that would help motivate the staff with fresh ideas, there where areas that I had already identified needed to be improved but there are some areas that I choose to do things a particular way because it works for us the children and the parents. I want to take on board the points raised but I would happily say never again as there are too many boxes that we fail on because we are in a shared hall and until that can be acknowledge in the ecers assessment scales then I dont see why I should go through such a demotivating experience. funny how this morning we had a wonderful session, totally child led and it was one of those sessions where all the children where engrossed and involved all session and what did we do different today... put less stuff out!! a BIG no no under ecers we started the session with no toys out and took small groups to the store cupboard and said what do you want to play with they chose and played, there was less mess, less arguing and an overall calmer atmosphere rather than the chaos of having all the boxes out and accessible, I was totally deflated after the ecers feed back and I feel the assessment process of "one list fits all" is going against the grain of the eyfs ethos ok rant over! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Well said! I'm glad you had a good day - it sounds as if you are a good reflective practitioner who knows exactly what's right for your group! As you say, a fresh pair of eyes is good - but the ears need to listen to your perspective before pronouncing judgement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Interesting to read peoples thoughts on ECERS. As a LA advisory teacher involved in rolling out ECERS/ITERS (for the under 3's) we are using them as a Quality Improvement tool in order to:- a)identify strengths and area for development in settings b)identify small steps to improve practice and outcomes for children c)identify where are support and training are most needed (cut backs in our team mean we are limited to what support we can offer) It should be a supportive process for managers and their staff and help them feed into "areas for development " in their SEF. Also to be able to clearly identify resource needs to improve the environement which is clearly what it looks at. ( for some settings it backs staff requests for equipment who are clearly under resourced) Hope this is the way our team are seen to be using it. Not all settings will welcome the process but it should be supportive. Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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