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Hi all

asking advice again :o


We have a boy at pre-school just turned 3 who we have been having problems with since he arrived. Thing is he is the supervisors own son! Im his keyperson as he seems to have bonded with myself more than the others (or should i say staff are frightened of him! I deal with him!). Supevisor is fully aware of his behaviour problems.....example today he was sat next to another, they were fighting over a toy and he bit the other child on the face. left a bruise after first aid treatment and we had to complete incident form. This is the most serious thing he has done (I hasten to add!). Most of the time its aggression, hiting out. We praise his postive behaviour and sometimes he can be the most delightful, funny child. Its difficulf for supervisor but we are now aware that some girls not coming to the setting bcause of him. Had initially put it down to age/stage/mum in setting etc but this has been going on for months. We have used talking to him, playing relevant game etc and even after today he knew straight away to say sorry howver this will not stop him next time! Have used time out, think about what you have done etc but to no avail.

When Im not in Supevisor says its awful as other staff do not deal with him (we as staff decided it was bst for other and not supervisor to sort out) so lacking consistency. Other staff have been reminded again today.

Im thinking of trying to chart his behaviour for a session to see if that highights anything. Anyone else got any ideas? Supervisor thinks her own son shoud be on an IEP. She i eriouly thinking of taking him out and paying out to send him elsewhere. New Deputy agreed that she should as otherwise 1 staff member woud have to watch him all the time. Im thinking what about inclusion? We woudnt do this if it was anyone eles child!??!


So need some ideas that I coud try to do with him. Pease bear in mind my setting re ratios etc !!!??? Its very difficult to give one to one support on min ratio for too long!


Thanks for advice

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we had a similar problem with a child and ensured that we filled in abc forms for every incident, did detailed observations on the child and ensured that staff where aware of the need to shadow the child, We then went on to complete IEP's for the child and has assessment fom our area senco ed psyc and local CDC child was eventually diagnosed and moved to a sen settinf suitable for his complex needs. All i would advise is gather all your evidence through obs and abc charts.

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i know in other nursery settings i have worked in, having your child attend the same nursery wasn't deemed good practice.

it sounds really difficult, and hope the situation improves for you.

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awwww i know how you feel with the ratio thing!!it is really hard to giveone to one attention.I'm not an expert in this field but in our Pre-School room we have a boy who turned 3 in February.He was really hard work when he moved up hitting,biting,swearing,pulling children to the floor breaking their toys etc.We sat him out,tried ignoring the behaviour,asking him why he had done cetain behaviours.Nothing was working

The early years advisory teacher said to instead of saying obviously don't do this that and ignoring him wasn't letting him know of behaviours we wanted to see so we were advised to say to him what we wanted him to doso instead of saying 'don't break so and so's toy' we say 'I would like you to play nicely ie see if you can buld a tower together etc.We obviously carry on praising him when he displays behaviour we want to see ie sharing nicely,tidying up well,caring for other children.With other behaviours ie hitting and breaking up toys we say what we want him to DO than NOT to do.This may not work in your setting but I have to say this child's behaviour has improved tremendously,i actually can't believe.There are problems at home with suspected domestic violence so we are aware his behaviour may relapse but he shares better,tidies up with a prop ie monkey,sits nicely-then gets to be first to line up to go outside.There was an instance today where he was like shouting at another child saying stop touching my toy-this was a tower he had constructed with the maths/building blocks.I said to him but so and so is helping you build it .Isn't that nice .would you like to build it together.he replied oooh is he he can have this cube.I think being positive and praising children for positive behaviours is the way forward.I couldn't help you with inclusion and Ieps though!!good luck!! ::1awe do detailed obs and event obs on children we have a concern about!!! our owner's child attends the nursery and i know how you feel-it's hard!!!

Edited by eclmmcca
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We have a number of boys in similar situations. I find that on days when we are closer to the minimum ratios their behaviour is more noticeable so firstly I have to say that your current staffing issues probably aren't helping. Not very helpful I have to admit. I have found it is easier to accept that boys are sometimes very boisterous and need much more physical play and large spaces, etc. Not to say all boys are like this and not to say some girls aren't like it either!


If you can provide the space and opportunities for them to play in this way you might see a change.


I do agree with your worries that the setting would not be looking to move the child if he was not the child of a staff member and that is worrying. If the staff member is not in denial of the behaviour then you should be doing everything to support her and her son - well even if she was but at least if she is in agreement it is easier to make in roads.


Sorry I don't think my rambling has helped much because I feel it might come down to needing more staff. My setting is taking part in some behaviour management training the week after next which I believe I might have actually written (long story :o ). After it if I think there is stuff in there which might help you and the setting I will get in touch to share it with you, as I am hoping it will help certain staff in my setting to deal with similar behaviour.

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Guest lou73

I can think of one little boy who i had on my carpet in nursery who had similar behaviour....but over time and with support and clear rules his behaviour calmed down and he was a pleasure to teach. I think its can be really hard when you work in the same place as your child attends. My son has additional needs which leads to behavourial issues at school and because of that I would never dream of working in the same place he goes to school, but that is my choice and not one my school would make for me.

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We have had a 3 year old boy (strange how this age keeps popping up) who came to us last September. From the first day his behaviour was difficult to manage, his vocabulary was very good, so we knew he wasnt really frustrated - he just didn't know how to behave with other children, he had two very young teenage parents now in their early 20's and some of his attitudes were very "teenage" as was his language and the type of topics he talks about - most of our boys are interested in superheros, Ben 10 etc. but this little boy was trying to talk to them about X Files! Today he was telling me all about Little Britain.


He was hurting other children indiscriminately we tried all the tricks we could think of. Then one day it all stopped - we don't really know why, his anger gets the better of him occasionally, and occasionally he uses swear words but the children now like him, the girls adore him and we get hardly any incidents at all.


Somehow, he has learned how to be a 3 year old. This was a bright boy who hadn't mixed very much with his own age group and it took a while for him to work out he needed a different behaviour with us to any he had known before I think.


We "coached" him a lot initially in how to make friends, the type of things to do - approaching, smiling etc. we sounded like cracked records some days about how to behave. We over dosed on the praising - we tried to show the other children that we loved him, we didn't like what he did sometimes, but showed that we thought he was lovable.


Both of his parents come with him every day and they are so pleased at how he has changed. Now all we have to do is change the attitudes of all the other parents who still just think of him as he used to be. We make a point of saying how brilliant he has been to his parents at the door so the others can hear us etc., he goes out wearing stickers etc.


I like the approach mentioned by eclmmcca I think this is a really helpful approach because it is coaching the child, rather than policing and controlling the child.


I do hope you can sort something out - how about a meeting with all staff and supervisor to come up with a whole group strategy. After all you just want this boy to be the best he can be and learn to manage his emotions better. Be supportive to his mum - I can't imagine how I would feel, my youngest boy was in nursery with me and they only time it was difficult was when he got so upset when he wasn't chosen to do certain jobs and would really sob. but I always left it to another member of staff to discipline him if needed - this was in the days before Key Workers.

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I have to wonder if the lack of consistency you mention could be contributing to this behaviour. I have seen a lot of children go through my childminding setting whose behaviour is fantastic until parents arrive, when it becomes appalling.


It could be very confusing for this little boy if different staff take different approaches. Also his mum may have different expectations of his behaviour at home from in the setting.


Perhaps it would be worth working on finding a consistent approach to his behaviour which is followed by everyone in the setting and at home. Then, when the boundaries are clear and consistently applied along with lots of positive language and praise as mentioned before, if the problem persists you could look further afield for support.


I can't see that moving him to another setting would solve anything.

Edited by AlisonP
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Thanks all for the advice!

Will definately try the not saying dont do that more! Im normally pretty good at that eg pleae walk intead of dont run, we have kind hands and we do try and use distraction.

It has also become the case where I can actually see what may happen before it does...if you know what I mean :wacko: I get ready to sort things out and then he surprises me and I give him lots of praise :( . The the next minute Im not watching him and he does something like today (darn those minimum ratios). Sometimes I just have to say "im watching you"!! :o and it works.

Heres hoping the staff talk today on consistency with behaviour and stop trying to avoid it may have done the trick.


Think now is the time that we have to look at it greater detail so will start to use the abc charts .....all good experience for me!



ooopss and sorry didnt realise I had posted twice xD:( :(

Edited by marley
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We have had a similar experience.

Have you tried to see if there is a "trigger" to this behaviour? Does it occur at the same time in the routine ?

or with certain children? Does he have any difficulty with communication? Are there enough toys available for the number of children? Are the activities too easy or too hard that he gets bored or frustrated ?Does he resent other children getting attention from his parent?

We had to change our routine recently because there seemed to be a time when the children got restless waiting to go outside and then problems in behaviour started.

If you have checked things like this then have you tried a reward chart? We have made a simple reward chart at the moment for one child and he gets a big sticker at the end of the seeion for having "kind hands" ( he pinches) After 5 stickers he will get a small reward. First day he got a sticker, on the second day he didn't get a sticker and was disappointed but it gave us time to remind him about what he needs to do ( or not do)and the following day he got his sticker again. Iit was a relief to have a good day and he is very excited at the thought of getting his reward!

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Two of my other hats in my setting was that of SENCO and BECO. ABC observations work well because they highlight the trigger points. We never used an IEP but put a play plan in to action. It is not as specific as an IEP and is a gentler approach for the parents. In fact all the children who had a play plan improved to the point it became difficult for staff to remember the behaviour of the child when they had been at their worst.


We also introduced the Sunshine Tree. This is a big chart that every child can participate with and does not single out individual children. We introduced it by asking the children about rules in the setting. We guided and adapted so all the rules were positive and these were written on to suns and displayed around the tree. ( Good sitting, good listening, kind wordsl, sharing, helping etc) We made a tree from paper but I have also used broken twigs. The children then all drew 5 pictures of a sun and wrote their names on. Staff laminated the pictures and punched a hole in the top. At reflection time at the end of a session the children and staff discussed the good things they had done and the children who were chosen would hang their sun on the tree. This happened every day and on a Friday we would count who had the most sunshines as we took them down and prepared for the following week. The children really loved it and it continued over their final term. Parents, visitors and OfSTED commented on ot as it raised all the childrens self esteem.


Every child showed an improvement in their behaviour because they were so keen to put their sunshine on the tree.


Good Luck.

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Hi all

Got th ABC rady for tommorrow o that I can try and identify reasons why!

Mrsbalzer can you give me mor info about the play plan? Sounds interesting.

Your sunshine tree reminds us of our tree which we put leaves on ........going to get it out again!


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The play plan fits on an A4 sheet, I'll try to attach one to this post (no promises though!) if I can't then PM me and I'll try it that way.


You basically look at which areas of the child's development need to be developed, if more than one you need to decide which one you think is most important to support first.


You then look at activities the child enjoys and devise ways to support the specific problem within those activities. Also how you will reward positive behaviours.


You discuss the plan with the parents, the reasons you're implementing it and the strategies you are using. I've frequently found that parents are very receptive to this and quite happily try to adopt similar strategies at home which all help with continuity.


The play plan is then reviewed after half a term or 6-8 weeks, this usually shows some progress so then you move on to the next area whilst continuing with the first. If no improvement you may need to start an IEP but as I mentioned in the previous post none of my children needed an IEP.



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