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Could I Be Out Of A Job?


marley
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Hi all

Update...we are definately moving into the school although staff have not yet been invited to a meeting about this...chair, head and early years/reception teacher and TA attended only!!! :(:o

 

Then our setting up lady this morning, whose hubby is on parish council said the chair went to parish meeting last night to ask for 10K (they got laughed at!) and were offered £500! Chair told them the situation and that when we move to school will only be able to offer 13 paces (currently 20 per day and numbers rising although will lose a few in sept). we have not yet been told this so we can only presume that they have a OFSTED in to take a look at the room we are to use (very small) :wacko: .

 

My next big question is if they have only 13 children do they need to employ 3 staff. I know the reception teacher wants us to accept ony 3 yrs and above i think we may have enough for this but then ratios say only 2 staff (although we would fight to have 3). Finances being as they are how would they afford 3 staff. still cant believe that as staff we are still supposed to be in the dark about this. Think thy may ooka t using the TA at school to help support.

 

There is a comm meeting next week with the new comm (although still the same chair and a few others) so will be going to see what chair says about this meeting that she attended to the rest of them. I hope we have it all wrong and are jumping the gun.

 

Anyway need to come up with why its not feasible to have 2 staff ie if a first aid emergency then only 1 staff remaining (athough i know what they will say that it could be covered by staff at school). In fact we think that they might be intending on using the TA at the school to help out xD :lol: :(

Any advice?

 

If they do make us redundant then me and job share are right in the middle of our courses and will have to look elsewhere. I could volunteer at another pre-school but my job share would find it difficult as she doesnt drive and has an afternoon job at school starting at 12 (fits in nicely with our pre-chool as its across the road).

 

Bl***y committees!!,.......sorry :(

Edited by marley
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Not sure about that marley. Are the school going to be taking over the pre-school? If so, then they would be able to cover emergencies, but if not, then they will have their staff allocated already I would think and not be open to being used. Even if you are working within the school premises, Ofsted would want to be sure that all staff or volunteers were regular and not just borrowed I would think.

If you have a good waiting list why are they movng to a place where they can only offer 13 places?

If the reception teacher only wants you to have 3 yr olds, does that suggsest she will be having a leading role? If you stay as you are with regards to being committee run pre-school, surely she shouldnt have a say on your children. Three year olds will bring in more money from funding but what about all the 2 year olds, where will they go?

 

Sorry about all the questions, I find myself a bit confused by your chairs actions.

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Sorry not much advice but we are a small pre-school attached to school, we have 9 children and 2 staff and at times it's a nightmare - for example staff can not go to the toilet!! get a drink!! if one child needs the loo we should really take 3 others with us (don't though as it's not always possible!). The only way we have found to get round it is to have a volunteer - so I suppose you could always go down that route if you are going to lose your job and need something to finish your course!

 

What a nighmare! they should really be keeping the staff informed of whats happening! xxx

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Hi

Yes Rea lots of questions from us too. We are supposed to be separate, but as supervisor says she is also unsure about her role now given that the head, teacher and chair seem to think it will be all about working tog! Yes but not taking over everything!

 

Why they are moving us to school...cos its something they have been trying to do for years so a big coup for the chair? Finances? Save money? Does the school get money for getting pre-school in? BUT surely they will have to reduce our numbers so not quite sure what some parents will think of that..(one comm member has our youngest child at 2 yrs 4 months so wonder what she will say if he doent get a place!!??)

 

When we raised this question about reducing numbers it was even suggested that a few of our olders ones could go sit in recpetion class :oxD:( . To which supervisor and myself said no way as they are our reponsibility. I just cant believe that the supervisor still hasnt been told much of all this. She said it is very cloak and dagger.

 

I think we are taking a big step backwards. The room is very small, no kitchen access at all (for baking activites), have to share toilets with reception and year 1, have to share resources/toys/displays with reception, no waiting area for parents (where doe our notice board go is one question)as they will have to be let in at 9 (children only) as school opens at 8.40am and there would be too much noise levels from pre-school children/parents to recepetion, year 1. Reception have to come through our room to get to toilets so need a huge gate across room to stop ours from leaving the room, we have no direct access to outdoors so no free flow anymore, have to walk around the school to get to the Early Years play area, no room for table for staff to complete paperwork, not sure where we will be expected to talk to parent as will be right outside year 1 classroom. Plus we have a boy with downs who requires plenty of floor space. We just think head wants us in so he may get funding to do an extension which pre-school will have to find half of but meanwhile we are all cramped inside. Had suggested a port-a-cabin but he didnt like that idea. Its all good fun :(

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I've just had a very quick glance through some of your other posts about this.

 

You're part of the PLA so I would suggest your superviser asks the DW come in. She will be able to help with ideas and advice on what the best route for the pre-school is. She should also be able to tell you about legalities. Our local school invited a private nursery provider in but it failed on legalities, I dont know what they were but emails to the LEA might not have helped their cause!

You need to know why the head wants you in. Ours wanted the nursery because he'd been turned down by the LEA for his own nursery. Years ago when I spoke to him about playgroup moving in he suggested the children wear school sweatshirts, so we knew where he was going to be going with that.

The PLA DW should also speak to the chair and will, if you ask come along to a committee meetting to give a bit of input and answer questions. She wont tell you what to do but will show you your options.

Schools are also expected to have wrap around care, do they have a before and after school club? If not will he soon be asking you to set one up. A head needs to think of all these things but if he can get it done by someone else while saving himself money he will do, obviously thats not true of all school heads, I'm not defaming all their characters, just be aware that while the heads intentions sound wonderful they might have other motives for offering them now, especially if you've been trying to get into the school for years!

As playleader I didnt have to wait for the chair to approach the head with any requests, can your superviser go and see him?

 

And I no need to tell you, but your parents will have to have a say in this. It affects their children now, and like your committee member with the 2.4 yr old, future children too.

Edited by Rea
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I'm not experienced with pre-schools in schools........ and I may have the wrong end of the stick.

 

but - surely school staff are employed be the LA.. and the pre-school by committee - so you can't expect LA employees work for pre-school ? sounds a bit iffy to me! Ok in a REAL emergency but not general staff sickness, loo break, lunch break manner. xx

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Hi

Louby loo thats what we think. Rea got our PLA lady coming in to have a meeting with them all in the next week. Thing is PLA lady is a nightmare (many other settings actually refused to have her as she causes so much upset. She is not supportive to supervisor but totally critisising. My supervisor has been on the brink of banning her! Plus our PVI teacher hates her! PVI teacher although great has only been doing job for 2 months so is not reay sure if she should be doing anything)

Anyway woud love to hear what PLA lady will have to say about it all! because she will not stand any nonsense so perhaps a good thing :oxD:(

 

School does have before and after school club so once we are in then head has got his wrap around care hasnt he :(

 

Oh and about going to head...he was the one that apparently requested pre-school staff did not attend the meeting!

Edited by marley
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I don't want to type too much cos I'm in a very cynical mood and not going to be very constructive. But I just wanted to say I hope everything works out for you, and ask if the move goes ahead, how do you stand about getting together with the supervisor and opening a new group in your old building, catering for all those with no places at the new group and getting rid of that flipping committee!? I'm sorry I can't remember what the situation is with your current building so that might not be of any help to you. Take care.

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gosh so many issues and questions

 

Only way school would profit is by rent for room and being able to access funding to extend school, suggestion that older ones go to reception makes me think about the head wanting a foundation stage unit in the school, but unable to as there is a viable pre- school or he has been stopped for some reason... perhaps not big enough building? same for wanting to restrict children ages... Perhaps a hidden agenda here from the school?

 

Preschool as a charity with committee would be totally independent of the school, so no sharing staff or relying on cover from school or any other such suggestions... you will have own staff and be employed by the committee others by LEA..

 

 

Legally with 13 you would only need 2 staff.. many work that way, you would not have the set up and put away but other issues will arise. and ask about holiday or illness cover, as they will need someone for that , or are they to sink funds into agency again... :o

 

Why would you share resources with reception... as said preschool is a separate provsiion and should have own resources.. not share

 

How will you cope with the reception children needing access, supervision of these children while in toilet area? whose responsibility? not yours but another grey area...

 

You need somewhere to talk to parents in confidence..something we are always asked by big O is how we handle confidential matters

 

This really does need to go to the committee as a whole with all the pitfalls highlighted so they can see for themselves if it is a 'good' thing for their children.. less space, shared toilets, shared resources, no outdoor space, reduced numbers, change in age range..

 

sorry to have the negative all the way but it does to me seem like a step backwards with a bit of a hidden agenda from the school who in reality should have no say in the pre-school other than the rent..

 

And i agree if no job do not volunteer in the setting..also you need to know very soon so you can arrange a placement, or go ahead arange a placement anyway... think I would be

 

Inge

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I don't want to type too much cos I'm in a very cynical mood and not going to be very constructive. But I just wanted to say I hope everything works out for you, and ask if the move goes ahead, how do you stand about getting together with the supervisor and opening a new group in your old building, catering for all those with no places at the new group and getting rid of that flipping committee!? I'm sorry I can't remember what the situation is with your current building so that might not be of any help to you. Take care.

 

here here Holly - im with you :o

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legally there only needs to be 2 staff but ideally there needs to be 3 how will the group manage indoor outdoor activities and a child has an accident!

 

was only the chair at the meeting? what about other committee members

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Gosh Marley, it sounds like a nightmare! Someone on my Foundation degree had to go into the school temporarily last term (lots of work needed in the preschool building) and said it was very stressful, but at least only for a few weeks.

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Marley, you setting (if you don't mind me saying) sounds like a bl***y nightmare! this must be so stressful for all the staff (those that haven't left pulling their hair out). I wish you and your setting all the best for the future. Although it's hard to see now, eventually things will settle down (you just don't know where yet). And wise words about finishing your course by working/volunteering somewhere else-it could be an exciting opportunity-i've always fancied doing volunteer work at a Steiner school...anyway, good luck, try and stay calm, we all thinking of you x (infact, i was thinking about you on the bus this morning!?!?! you just popped into my head!) x

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(infact, i was thinking about you on the bus this morning!?!?! you just popped into my head!) x

 

 

aaah thats nice!

 

At the last comm meeting one comm member actually said going into the school should be viewed carefully as it shouldnt be a step back. She was overlooked really! Unfortuantely she is no longer on the committee.

 

Sharing toys as we shall be sharing the classroom concerned. However can see it coming about resources ie who used all the black paper, paint :o We will have room in the morning and then early years (those that go to school afternoons) and reception will have it in the afternoon.

 

Good point about having an area to talk to parents...looks like it could be outside xD

 

Have sent off 4 emails with covering letter and cv and posted 4 this morning to other pre-schools asking if they require bank staff and to keep me in mind for future vacancies (all local with 15 mins drive). Hopefully, if need be I have a contact in a pre-school to do my placement if necessary .

 

Holly nice idea about forming another group! Will bear it in mind.

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Sharing toys as we shall be sharing the classroom concerned. However can see it coming about resources ie who used all the black paper, paint We will have room in the morning and then early years (those that go to school afternoons) and reception will have it in the afternoon.

 

This rings big alarm bells with me.... its not just resources you could have a problem with.....

 

what about who buys the equipment etc,

who has responsibility for replacing them

if one gets broken what could be the outcome

If left unclean by one group?

your catering for a younger age even if they are over 3 so have different needs

Lost toys, or taken home in pockets.. it does happen.

cleaning of toys etc.. whose responsibility

 

and hundreds more questions which would need clarifying, I prefer to think about the problem before it arises

 

Inge

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don't blame them, would restrict them too,

and they probably have same worries about sharing resources...

cleaning use of space... you are likely to have different layout needs so still moving stuff?

 

storage of your confidential documents on site, somewhere secure others cannot get into, would need to be different to the schools , as you are independent not part of the school.

 

oh and this raises the issue of policies and procedures, what if yours conflict with eh schools, you will still need your own.

 

I keep thinking of more issues to ask about , sorry, but feel this really is hidden agenda..

 

i too would consider the opening of own in hall, but that has issues too with financial implications for all, and lack of funding for 1 term etc... but if you took the younger ones this may not as big an issue...are there any set up grants out there these days?

 

 

Inge

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I'm afraid I have not had time to read all of the comments, so this may have already been covered. Our setting is in the process of being taken over by the school.

 

As I understand it, there is something called a 10p rule, which means that if your company/setting is being taken over, the school has to employ you on your current terms and conditions.

 

Hope I have got the wrong end of the stick in this thread.

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